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Comment by: domie (Feb 23, 2008 00:38)

my girlfriend works for PC World (UK) in one of their stores - she tells me that they sold 267 X Boxes over christmas and 93 have already been returned for refunds or repairs.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Feb 23, 2008 03:42)

Originally posted by domie:

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and that spells out one of the crucial factors why blu ray won the format war - nothing to do with superiority, technical specs or even consumer choice and everything to do with the fact that the blu-ray player is an integral part of the sony ps3 - those who buy the games console can't avoid it so naturally they migrate to buying movies for it as well to make the most of it.
the point is that the X-Box is independent of HD-DVD and always has been so of course they would get a lousy conversion on an unnecessary add on to the console. X-Box games aren't produced on HD-DVD so why would an X-Boxer buy an add-on that adds nothing to the console ?
if microsoft had seriously considered loyally supporting HD-DVD then they must have known they would have to make the player an integral part of the console and release all X-Box 360 titles on HD-DVD etc - if only to help Toshiba compete with Sony.
the format war only lasted as long because Sony PS3 had such a poor initial take-up and public response. Once sales picked up and prices dropped - it was inevitable that the added weight of the PS3 to blu ray sales would tip the balance in their favour.

Please note I am talking about the Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD competition - I am not even interested in the X-Box vs PS3 debate.

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I disagree they won because they sold off some core business and bought the market out the PS3 had lil to do with it.

On the other hand the 360 is a mess spec and hardware wise while a market leader in consoles its only got there by default adding to it Toshiba just could not make the deals to buy out the market, its funny if they doubled the price of the players and fought as hard make the deals they could have just as easily won, but silly them they went after consumers while sony went after the industry and headed Toshiba off at the pace.


I am not picking on any one brand I am stating the truth from the facts I see.

Comment by: samshizze (Feb 23, 2008 06:12)

Well have fun jamming all your games on dual layer DVD's then. Lets see how long your able to keep that up...

Comment by: vinny13 (Feb 23, 2008 06:26)

Originally posted by samshizze:

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Well have fun jamming all your games on dual layer DVD's then. Lets see how long your able to keep that up...

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Ya... I wonder how they're gonna get out of this one... Either way the customer get's screwed :(

Comment by: DarkElder (Feb 23, 2008 17:17)

There is nothing to "get around". Toss another discs in the package. PSX did it and people got all excited to see games spanning multiple discs! Like when Final Fantasy 7 had 3 discs ...I was so ecstatic . And anyone that crys about having to stand up and change a disc, after 10 hour of game play, has deeper issues than the number of discs a videogame spans. Plus last time I checked ONE blank BR is $15 + shipping and the burners are $400+. As compared to a blank DL-DVD, which cost $1. No, no , either way I win with my modded firmware to backup MY xbox 360 games. Too be honest I don't want a BR player...movies coming on ANY disc is too outdated. Having a Media server is the future. I defy my 6 year old son ability to “scratch up” a digital movie file, like he did with the Lion King DVD I paid $25 for.

Comment by: Razengan (Feb 24, 2008 04:32)

So, Bluray won the format war. I don't think so! They might have won the battle against HD-DVD, but standard DVD is still king. Besides electronic distribution promises to be a better candidate to win in the long run.

Right now, Standard DVD's still rule. I got a 1080p upconverting DVD player with HDMI cable for less than $60 bucks, for my old lady, and the image quality on her 42" LCD is awesome. No need to pay over $300 for a crappy bluray player. Good luck bluray, you still have a long way to go.

Comment by: ripxrush (Feb 24, 2008 06:58)

WOW! now i know why HD-DVD & especially the Xbox 360 HD-DVD add on did so poorly! they just don't get it! i have a 360 but i could have gotten a system WITH a blu-ray for $50 more or less (depending on version of 360 &u got)If i wanted to ass HD-DVD i would at first have had to pay $200 more making it silly to buy something that may (& did ) loose a format war! now is the time for M$ to release a $100 Blu-ray drive! it still needs to be a cheap o alternative to buying a ps3! I plan to buy a PS3 for the blu-ray just due to the price factor! $400 on stand alone Blu-ray or on a PS3 with blu-ray weather or not i use both i have both for the same price!

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Feb 24, 2008 07:02)

Originally posted by ripxrush:

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WOW! now i know why HD-DVD & especially the Xbox 360 HD-DVD add on did so poorly! they just don't get it! i have a 360 but i could have gotten a system WITH a blu-ray for $50 more or less (depending on version of 360 &u got)If i wanted to ass HD-DVD i would at first have had to pay $200 more making it silly to buy something that may (& did ) loose a format war! now is the time for M$ to release a $100 Blu-ray drive! it still needs to be a cheap o alternative to buying a ps3! I plan to buy a PS3 for the blu-ray just due to the price factor! $400 on stand alone Blu-ray or on a PS3 with blu-ray weather or not i use both i have both for the same price!

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the 400$ PS3s suck, the 60GB is better at least the 360 with HDD and HDVD is worth 400$......what?
:P

Comment by: DrXerox (Feb 24, 2008 09:47)

Totally agree with Ripxrush. If MS truly have sold 18 million units now is the time for a cheap(ish) add on BR player.
They won't sell 18 million but a 10% take up at 1.8 million has got to be worth it.
I didn't buy the HD add on as there was a format war, but I would definitely buy a br drive now.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Feb 24, 2008 11:00)

Originally posted by DrXerox:

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Totally agree with Ripxrush. If MS truly have sold 18 million units now is the time for a cheap(ish) add on BR player.
They won't sell 18 million but a 10% take up at 1.8 million has got to be worth it.
I didn't buy the HD add on as there was a format war, but I would definitely buy a br drive now.

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Oh they have sold that many I have no doubt but 5,400,000(30%) are brokenin shape or forum and maybe half of the are resold pushing the total up 15-20%.

MS should give in and make a 500$ elite unit that has a BR drive in it....let sony make it so its not crap eh?

Comment by: snoop5023 (Feb 24, 2008 11:38)

Microsoft make claims that the format war will have no effect on them as far as the HD-DVD drive add-on. Well, what they need to do reality check. What about the consumers who have already bought a HD-DVD add-on? Is Microsoft calling them suckers? I since Microsoft is claiming to have 18 million xbox 360 units, and (let me get this right)correct me if I am wrong, something about only 3% sales for the HD-DVD add-on sold, well with all the money Microsoft have made with the 18 million 360 units sold, they should be finding a way to help economic ridden consumers who bought a HD-DVD add-on deal with the outcome of the format war instead of gloating on how the format war is not going to effect them. Again, who loses out? Let's all say it, The consumer.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Feb 24, 2008 11:43)

Originally posted by snoop5023:

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Microsoft make claims that the format war will have no effect on them as far as the HD-DVD drive add-on. Well, what they need to do reality check. What about the consumers who have already bought a HD-DVD add-on? Is Microsoft calling them suckers? I since Microsoft is claiming to have 18 million xbox 360 units, and (let me get this right)correct me if I am wrong, something about only 3% sales for the HD-DVD add-on sold, well with all the money Microsoft have made with the 18 million 360 units sold, they should be finding a way to help economic ridden consumers who bought a HD-DVD add-on deal with the outcome of the format war instead of gloating on how the format war is not going to effect them. Again, who loses out? Let's all say it, The consumer.

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Only 200-400K of consumers got a HDVD drive, 30-60% of them for the 360 ALONE, so tis not as bad as you think.
Its also the price of buying non standerized hardware, MS needs to just make the 360 a better system.

Comment by: chaos_zzz (Feb 24, 2008 14:10)

let me remind u sir that almost 6 million consoles worlwide had the red light, plus somer more cuz not every country has a microsoft repair center so ppl just hand their 360's to some technician to fix it.

i don't think they'll make one thought cuz not every console has hdmi so what's the point, remember this is not a next gen console .. it uses dvd..cough cough...

Comment by: vinny13 (Feb 24, 2008 16:00)

Ya another 2 of my friends had them die last week at like the same time :P

Lol their consoles were like the same age too...

Comment by: ChiefBrdy (Feb 24, 2008 16:52)

I use the Xbox 360 to play games and to listen to music and watch slide shows via Media Center. I would have bought the DVD player for it sub $70 but obviously not now. W/BR players being in the $300 - $399 range. The only way I'd buy an Xbox 360 add-on if it was $150 or less. Even then, there are too many advantages of a stand alone vs and Xbox one.

I think XBox sales will definately suffer due to BR. When Joe Consumer realizes they can get a PS3 AND a BR for about the same price as a stand alone BR, it's pretty much a no-brainer.

Comment by: vinny13 (Feb 24, 2008 19:13)

Ya one thing most 360s don't have HDMI so lmao wtf

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Feb 24, 2008 22:14)

Originally posted by vinny13:

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Ya one thing most 360s don't have HDMI so lmao wtf

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only about 5M under 3rd, plus they can bypass HDCP with the appropriate software/frimware,but by the time HDCP hits the 360 will be dead..

Comment by: Onibon (Feb 25, 2008 16:50)

Maybe microsoft should try to make a new hard drive that is compatible with blu ray as well, if microsoft and sony could get a contract together then maybe sales for blu ray would b better. It is a long shot but possible since hd dvd is out the window now that toshiba has stopped making them, and warner bros. has taken payment from sony to stop making hd dvd.

Comment by: emugamer (Feb 25, 2008 17:17)

Originally posted by Onibon:

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Maybe microsoft should try to make a new hard drive that is compatible with blu ray as well, if microsoft and sony could get a contract together then maybe sales for blu ray would b better. It is a long shot but possible since hd dvd is out the window now that toshiba has stopped making them, and warner bros. has taken payment from sony to stop making hd dvd.

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I agree. MS should really look into bluray. I hadn't purchased a console in 2 years for the very reason being discussed - the format war. This past weekend, I finally bought the 40GB PS3 for $400. Wi-fi, HDMI-out....what more do I need? I can always swap the HDD out if I ever feel there is a need for more space and I don't care for the BWC, so it's a good price for me. Why did I buy a PS3? Because bluray came out on top. If bluray failed, I was going to buy a 360. So now I have a next-gen console and a high definition media player and don't have to buy the 2 separately. I would also be curious to see the PS3 sales in the next few months compared to the 360. And not just sales, but actual growth. Even if the 360 sells more than the PS3, which console will have the higher growth rate?

I only see one problem. Any contract with Sony would force MS to sell a stand-alone bluray player for what the market is dictating in order to make a profit. Now if MS can somehow sell a stand-alone bluray player for sub $200, then 360 sales may not be impacted by the loss of HDDVD. I know a lot of people just like me who were also waiting for the outcome of the format war to decide which console to buy.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Feb 25, 2008 17:18)

Originally posted by Onibon:

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Maybe microsoft should try to make a new hard drive that is compatible with blu ray as well, if microsoft and sony could get a contract together then maybe sales for blu ray would b better. It is a long shot but possible since hd dvd is out the window now that toshiba has stopped making them, and warner bros. has taken payment from sony to stop making hd dvd.

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......................... my comp geek died with this

"Maybe microsoft should try to make a new hard drive that is compatible with blu ray as well"

The Hard drive is indapendant, however how the HD interfaces with the 360 and its OS is...totally fcked, because it locks the HDD and is unable/unwilling to write on the USB port so they can sale overpriced mem cards.... its fcking sad....

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Feb 25, 2008 17:22)

Quote:

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Originally posted by Onibon:

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Maybe microsoft should try to make a new hard drive that is compatible with blu ray as well, if microsoft and sony could get a contract together then maybe sales for blu ray would b better. It is a long shot but possible since hd dvd is out the window now that toshiba has stopped making them, and warner bros. has taken payment from sony to stop making hd dvd.

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I agree. MS should really look into bluray. I hadn't purchased a console in 2 years for the very reason being discussed - the format war. This past weekend, I finally bought the 40GB PS3 for $400. I don't care for the BWC, so it's a good price for me. Why did I buy a PS3? Because bluray came out on top. If bluray failed, I was going to buy a 360. So now I have a next-gen console and a high definition media player and don't have to buy the 2 separately. I would also be curious to see the PS3 sales in the next few months compared to the 360. And not just sales, but actual growth. Even if the 360 sells more than the PS3, which console will have the higher growth rate?

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Ya but the HDVD drive can't do HDCP so in 2-4 years when all movies went HDCP..... besides the 360 is a solid console if you don't have a solid PC...if you have a uber rig(or something like it)..the 360 is pitiful....

Comment by: vinny13 (Feb 25, 2008 21:10)

Quote:

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Ya but the HDVD drive can't do HDCP so in 2-4 years when all movies went HDCP..... besides the 360 is a solid console if you don't have a solid PC...if you have a uber rig(or something like it)..the 360 is pitiful....

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I wouldn't call it solid... My Commodore 64 is more solid then that...

Comment by: Onibon (Feb 26, 2008 01:10)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Originally posted by Onibon:

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Maybe microsoft should try to make a new hard drive that is compatible with blu ray as well, if microsoft and sony could get a contract together then maybe sales for blu ray would b better. It is a long shot but possible since hd dvd is out the window now that toshiba has stopped making them, and warner bros. has taken payment from sony to stop making hd dvd.

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......................... my comp geek died with this

"Maybe microsoft should try to make a new hard drive that is compatible with blu ray as well"

The Hard drive is indapendant, however how the HD interfaces with the 360 and its OS is...totally fcked, because it locks the HDD and is unable/unwilling to write on the USB port so they can sale overpriced mem cards.... its fcking sad....

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It prolly could make microsoft and sony more money in the end tho. Microsoft would sell more consoles becuase of the price difference between the ps3 and 360, and sony would make more money off blu ray dvd sales. It could b a win win if it was played out right.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Feb 26, 2008 01:12)

Originally posted by vinny13:

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Quote:

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Ya but the HDVD drive can't do HDCP so in 2-4 years when all movies went HDCP..... besides the 360 is a solid console if you don't have a solid PC...if you have a uber rig(or something like it)..the 360 is pitiful....

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I wouldn't call it solid... My Commodore 64 is more solid then that...

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solid in software but ya the 360 is a broken mess and sony has made the PS3 more viable.

Comment by: borhan9 (Apr 10, 2008 20:42)

Originally posted by limelight:

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It has a low attach rate because most people didnt want to spend money on the format war. Now that theres a clear winner, its a no brainer to create a BR drive.

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Exactly what I was thinking. Now that the war is over they need to bring out either an external drive or make new consoles with the blu-ray drive built in.