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Comment by: ZippyDSM (Mar 14, 2008 20:30)

Originally posted by ChiefBrdy:

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The Wii doesn't have HD and it's doing well. The Xbox 360 will probably lower it's price and compete as nothing more than a game machine. For the price conscious, this will be a good thing.

Also, when stand alone Blue-ray players are in the sub $200 range. More people will buy them and not so much consider Blu-ray when buying a game machine i.e. Playstation.

At which point, the Playstation will be viewed as overpriced for gamers. So they will go to the Xbox or Wii for games, and a stand alone player for Blu-ray, leaving a niche market for Playstation.

On the other hand. Something entirely different will play out. Maybe an unknown company will develop a holographic game machine that also vacuums the floor. Everything at this point is pure speculation.

Right now, I have the 360 and the $49 HD player to go with it. I get the games off of Amazon or eBay at a fraction of the cost and the HD DVD's the same way. I'm waiting for Blu-ray to come down on price before buying one. Until then, my up converting players are just fine.

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WII is a whole other type of "ballgame" I would not call them a game system in the common sense, the reason tis doing great is because tis sold out to be a mainstream gimmick, with 3 or 4 real games on it I dunno it needs more of alot of things to become a real game system to me, the 360 is broken and getting to its death bed without some improvement to the hardware aspect of it.

The PS3 seems to have the long run sewn up,right now its choices are not much better than the WII and the 360 has a nice selection of games if you want to deal with tis hardware issues and don;t have a game worthy PC.

Comment by: tripplite (Mar 14, 2008 21:50)

Quote:

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The Wii doesn't have HD and it's doing well. The Xbox 360 will probably lower it's price and compete as nothing more than a game machine. For the price conscious, this will be a good thing.

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ok i smell FANBOY!!! get real manXD

i think that the only reason for the 360 not getting a blu ray is because people will see it as another scam like the HD player...or they feel that a blu ray upgrade isn't needed yet

Comment by: hade (Mar 14, 2008 22:22)

ummm microsoft released the ELITE model of the 360 for a reason. HDMI and a larger HDD are two key components towards building their LIVE download service and of course their upcoming model with the larger HDD should also be taken into consideration.

microsoft is trying to push their downloads, incorporating or adding a Blu-ray peripheral isn't something that would benefit their plan. they have already stated publically they are going to invest and improve their LIVE service.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Mar 15, 2008 00:20)

Originally posted by hade:

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ummm microsoft released the ELITE model of the 360 for a reason. HDMI and a larger HDD are two key components towards building their LIVE download service and of course their upcoming model with the larger HDD should also be taken into consideration.

microsoft is trying to push their downloads, incorporating or adding a Blu-ray peripheral isn't something that would benefit their plan. they have already stated publically they are going to invest and improve their LIVE service.

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and doing one hell of a sloppy job at it.....

If they would just do something with the HDD to make it cheaper for everyone to have more than 20GB that would push their live service.

Comment by: wetsparks (Mar 15, 2008 01:23)

Quote:

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360 userbase is almost double that of PS3 so how is that it is so piss poor and that the PS3 is shaping up so good?
The 360 isn't evolving!!!It has recently offered HD film downloads in the UK,expanded the size of game downloads,connected it all up with Windows LIVE and messenger and you think Microsoft has given up...yeah right!

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I know this was up there on the page a little bit but I felt the need to fix this. I skipped the psn v live part because I know nothing of live to compare the two. But the 360's user base is not almost double, it is a little more than 6 million ahead and it was released a year earlier, not exactly what Microsoft was hoping for. Another thing Microsoft wasn't hoping for was to be outsold during the holidays by the more expensive system (PS3) and to still be outsold since. Yet if you believe the PR spin it is because of shortages. They have been on the market the longest, yet can't make systems as fast. Sony has been outselling them and able to keep up with demand, but somehow Microsoft can't. Also the HD films part. Microsoft likes to talk about this, yet they are selling a system without a hdd and wifi (the arcade version) and I think the medium version has a small hdd and no wifi. So how good will this HD film download be when 2/3 of the versions of the system you are trying to sell it on are disadvantaged to use it?

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Mar 15, 2008 01:28)

Quote:

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Quote:

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360 userbase is almost double that of PS3 so how is that it is so piss poor and that the PS3 is shaping up so good?
The 360 isn't evolving!!!It has recently offered HD film downloads in the UK,expanded the size of game downloads,connected it all up with Windows LIVE and messenger and you think Microsoft has given up...yeah right!

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I know this was up there on the page a little bit but I felt the need to fix this. I skipped the psn v live part because I know nothing of live to compare the two. But the 360's user base is not almost double, it is a little more than 6 million ahead and it was released a year earlier, not exactly what Microsoft was hoping for. Another thing Microsoft wasn't hoping for was to be outsold during the holidays by the more expensive system (PS3) and to still be outsold since. Yet if you believe the PR spin it is because of shortages. They have been on the market the longest, yet can't make systems as fast. Sony has been outselling them and able to keep up with demand, but somehow Microsoft can't. Also the HD films part. Microsoft likes to talk about this, yet they are selling a system without a hdd and wifi (the arcade version) and I think the medium version has a small hdd and no wifi. So how good will this HD film download be when 2/3 of the versions of the system you are trying to sell it on are disadvantaged to use it?

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One of my problems with the 360 is the disembodied multi heads it has one part of it prevented coherent HDD upgrades and the other wants 6GB film downloads....its assinie.

Comment by: PantherM (Mar 15, 2008 03:35)

IMO
Microsoft is not putting a Blu-Ray drive in the current X-Box is because it would render all previously sold X-Box consoles useless once the first X-Box game on Blu-Ray hits the stores. That would tick off a lot of people.

The "niches" are being set.
Casual "parent" gamers go for the Wii. It is fun, cheap, and easy.
"Hardcore" gamers go for the X-Box. Best library of games.

But Sony played their cards right, and are trying to put a PS3 in everyones living room as a media center. A took them a year longer to get their system out...and the developer learning curve is steeper for Blu-Ray programmers....but it is clear that the PS3 is the only one of the 3 systems that is "next gen capable".

Built in Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Blu-Ray, Linux as a secondary OS (if you want it), and an easily upgradable HDD. Heck, I can get a 160GB Sata II, a 2.5 inch enclosure, and USB cable all SHIPPED from Newegg for under $100. Can't beat that.

Also, this statement:

Quote:

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What's more relevant is the fact that most people with a PS3 play their game through TV speakers.Nice feature to boast about but it's more like willy waving than essential inclusion.

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Total BS. Is it fact....or a weak opinion? A lot of MS fanboys say the PS3 is nothing but a Blu-Ray player that plays games....if that is the case...than why would someone buy a $400-$600 Hi-Def Media player with optical and HDMI outputs only play to play it through TV speakers?!?!

Comment by: DXR88 (Mar 15, 2008 03:47)

Xbox will need higher storage Capability's in its optical storage this is Evident, How ever DVD-18 may be There choice right now.

One of two things May happen HD-DVD may become XBox only media or they make multi DVD-18's(the most likly to happen)

Or they bite the bullet hard and make a new DVD with UHS Capacity
or side with BR(the most unlikly to happen)

@PantherM: Not every body has a 9000 dollar studio type equipment, so from Consumer view point i believe he may be right.

i have a Dolby Pro Logic II Decoder And that sounds really Good, for Xbox 360. i Purchased it for 258.99 At Piggly Wiggly's.

PS3 has the upper hand right now, Trust me M$ will pull somthing Out off there Billion dollar hat o'tricks.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Mar 15, 2008 03:52)

Originally posted by DXR88:

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Xbox will need higher storage Capability's in its optical storage this is Evident, How ever DVD-18 may be There choice right now.

One of two things May happen HD-DVD may become XBox only media or they make multi DVD-18's(the most likly to happen)

Or they bite the bullet hard and make a new DVD with UHS Capacity
or side with BR(the most unlikly to happen)

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Unless MS and sony can make a deal to do it I don;t see it,sony dose not need another platform to push movies on nor do they need to bleed money to buy off MS, I can see a BR add on before the 360 gets canned in 3ish years lets face it the Xbox 2 is coming :P.

The 360 needs more space this is a reality however I see them using HDDs its cheaper(or wold be if they would wake up) and gets them more live content sold theres really no down side to it.

Comment by: PantherM (Mar 15, 2008 04:54)

Originally posted by DXR88:

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"........@PantherM: Not every body has a 9000 dollar studio type equipment, so from Consumer view point i believe he may be right.

i have a Dolby Pro Logic II Decoder And that sounds really Good, for Xbox 360. i Purchased it for 258.99 At Piggly Wiggly's.

PS3 has the upper hand right now, Trust me M$ will pull somthing Out off there Billion dollar hat o'tricks."

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I don't have that type of equipment neither. However, there is big difference between having a simple 5.1 system (which many people with 360/PS3's have) and saying that it is a "fact that most people with a PS3 play their game through TV speakers."

Especially if some people want others to believe that the PS3 is nothing more than a Blu-Ray player. How many people would buy such an expensive Blu-Ray player...only to waste the audio on TV speakers?
People have been playing their video game systems through their "stero" speakers for LONG time now. That statement simply has the stench of fanboyism in a weak attempt to discount the uncompressed audio MGS4.

As far as the upper hand goes....I think it is really starting to go Sony's way. It seems like once Blu-Ray won the format war, the X-Box aged rather quickly. If HD-DVD would have won....than it would have been the X-Box, with its huge library of games, XBL, and HD-DVD add-on vs the PS3, it's blue-tooth, wi-fi, useless BD player, and a few titles.

As of right now, the PS3 has the "capability" to do everything the 360 does, but the 360 cannot do half as much (yes, hyperbole) as the PS3 can. For instance, XBL is FAR more advanced than the PSN....BUT...with the easily upgradable SATA II's, the secondary OS, and the unplugged USB ports, the PS3 has the "capability" to exceed the 360 in this area....it is just that Sony has not done for the PSN what MS has done for the 360.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Mar 15, 2008 05:08)

Quote:

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Originally posted by DXR88:

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"........@PantherM: Not every body has a 9000 dollar studio type equipment, so from Consumer view point i believe he may be right.

i have a Dolby Pro Logic II Decoder And that sounds really Good, for Xbox 360. i Purchased it for 258.99 At Piggly Wiggly's.

PS3 has the upper hand right now, Trust me M$ will pull somthing Out off there Billion dollar hat o'tricks."

---

I don't have that type of equipment neither. However, there is big difference between having a simple 5.1 system (which many people with 360/PS3's have) and saying that it is a "fact that most people with a PS3 play their game through TV speakers."

Especially if some people want others to believe that the PS3 is nothing more than a Blu-Ray player. How many people would buy such an expensive Blu-Ray player...only to waste the audio on TV speakers?
People have been playing their video game systems through their "stero" speakers for LONG time now. That statement simply has the stench of fanboyism in a weak attempt to discount the uncompressed audio MGS4.

As far as the upper hand goes....I think it is really starting to go Sony's way. It seems like once Blu-Ray won the format war, the X-Box aged rather quickly. If HD-DVD would have won....than it would have been the X-Box, with its huge library of games, XBL, and HD-DVD add-on vs the PS3, it's blue-tooth, wi-fi, useless BD player, and a few titles.

As of right now, the PS3 has the "capability" to do everything the 360 does, but the 360 cannot do half as much as the PS3 can. For instance, XBL is FAR more advanced than the PSN....BUT...with the easily upgradable SATA II's, the secondary OS, and the unplugged USB ports, the PS3 has the "capability" to exceed the 360 in this area....it is just that Sony has not done for the PSN what MS has done for the 360.

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WHat MS has (large library of live and disc based games) the PS3 will have,what the PS3 has (better OS,easier to upgrade and bigger HDD system,bigger disc system) the 360 lacks.

MS set themselfs up and cripples their own Gdamn legs, I do not care for brans as much as quality of product and MS time and time again has shown if you have evolved from a knuckle dragging console noob the 360 is a anti consumer nightmare from the quality to the fees to the price...the PS3 aint much better right now but at least it baths(something I can not say for self)...

the WII is in its own lil world dominating the casual and non gamer crowd so I would not count it nor count it out, I am looking at the main 2 "game" systems made and marketed to gamers the WII just ain't there yet.


So far sony is on the right track let hope they dont screw itup.....we don;t need 2 MS's....

Comment by: ChiefBrdy (Mar 15, 2008 11:22)

Quote:

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Originally posted by ChiefBrdy:

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The Wii doesn't have HD and it's doing well. The Xbox 360 will probably lower it's price and compete as nothing more than a game machine. For the price conscious, this will be a good thing.

Also, when stand alone Blue-ray players are in the sub $200 range. More people will buy them and not so much consider Blu-ray when buying a game machine i.e. Playstation.

At which point, the Playstation will be viewed as overpriced for gamers. So they will go to the Xbox or Wii for games, and a stand alone player for Blu-ray, leaving a niche market for Playstation.

On the other hand. Something entirely different will play out. Maybe an unknown company will develop a holographic game machine that also vacuums the floor. Everything at this point is pure speculation.

Right now, I have the 360 and the $49 HD player to go with it. I get the games off of Amazon or eBay at a fraction of the cost and the HD DVD's the same way. I'm waiting for Blu-ray to come down on price before buying one. Until then, my up converting players are just fine.

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WII is a whole other type of "ballgame" I would not call them a game system in the common sense, the reason tis doing great is because tis sold out to be a mainstream gimmick, with 3 or 4 real games on it I dunno it needs more of alot of things to become a real game system to me, the 360 is broken and getting to its death bed without some improvement to the hardware aspect of it.

The PS3 seems to have the long run sewn up,right now its choices are not much better than the WII and the 360 has a nice selection of games if you want to deal with tis hardware issues and don;t have a game worthy PC.

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Regarding the Wii, man are you right. I just looked up the games on Amazon. Slim pickens indeed. They had a few good ones but overall they are definitely geared toward the little kid. I did see Tiger Woods 08. I wonder if you can use a Wii golf club and swing like you were really playing. That would be cool.

Regarding the Xbox. Admittedly, the first generation of Xbox 360s were pure crap with the 'red lights of death.' I've had one that was fixed under warranty for about 6 months. It has worked flawlessly. Not one problem with the hardware.

I my particular case, I bought a broken 360 Ultimate for $118. Called MS, didn't lie. Told them I bought it from eBay and it didn't work and red lights were flashing. The rep set up a return at no charge and sent me out a new (refurb I'm sure) one. Add the $49 HD DVD player I bought (with 6 free movies) and I got one heck of a system for $167. Yes, I know HD DVD is dead and all the arguments.

Some of the new games are awesome on both the PS3 and Xbox platform. I saw a demo of Army of Two in a store. I swear, for a minute I thought I was watching a movie.

Comment by: ChromeMud (Mar 15, 2008 12:33)

The 360 won't be getting Blu-Ray to play games and that's the end of it.You can whine all you like about it not getting uncompressed 7.1 audio for all the PS3 owners bar me cuz I have only 5.1 compressed (poor me)that have state of the art HDMI Amps,speakers,etc.
I can also state for the fact that I have played PS3 games on my 1080P telly and some games are reported on my screen as 720P whereas my 360 scales everything and I mean every demo,video,game to 1080P.
I enjoy my 360 and PS3 as they are both worth having in my opinion.I don't have to be a bleedin' fanboy cheering for the Xbots or 'Sony Defence Force' telling everyone else that one system is SHIT and the other is so GREAT.
I think this Blu-Ray debate is a none issue.If you want HD films and HD games get a PS3 it's good value entertainment,if you want HD games get a 360, also good value and if you want fun and exercise in SD get a Wii which is probably the best value for fun of all the systems.
Have fun everyone and try to keep your crying and whining to an acceptable level ok kids....

Comment by: Jagosix (Mar 15, 2008 12:53)

Hello Fellow Gamers. After reading all of these posts up to this point, I have a few things to say. First off this topic is about M$ not adopting BluRay. They have their reasons. Just because some people want them to have BluRay doesn't mean it's going to happen. So far I haven't seen a BluRay game look any better than a DVD9 game. It's a STORAGE MEDIUM PEOPLE. A HDD will always dominate the storage space.

Second. Some of you mentioned the audio sound in the games. It's true that people have HDtvs with only stereo sound & no surround. A lot of people have that type of setup. They had to make a choice. Get a game system or a surround sound system. Guess which one won? As long as they can hear good stereo, that good enough for most. This is real life. Not everyone has the money or means to buy a HDTV, Surround Sound system along with the console of choice (X360, Wii, PS3). We get the Console 1st & go from there.

Third. Xblive is the BEST online service for a console to date. PSN nor Wii comes close to what M$ has done with Xblive. That's a fact. Wow.., you guys can't afford to pay $4 a month, but complain to other people about buying Surround sound systems with receivers & HDtvs. Please..come up with a better excuse for not paying for Xblive. Some of you spend more than $4 a month on things like, Cigarettes, Beer, candy, Soda, etc.. Heck I'll bet most of you spend more than $4 a day on the items I've just mentioned.

I would go on but you get my point. Or do you?

Comment by: vinny13 (Mar 15, 2008 14:47)

Originally posted by Jagosix:

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So far I haven't seen a BluRay game look any better than a DVD9 game.

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I have :P

Originally posted by Jagosix:

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It's a STORAGE MEDIUM PEOPLE. A HDD will always dominate the storage space.

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In which most 360s don't have.

Originally posted by Jagosix:

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Third. Xblive is the BEST online service for a console to date.

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;)

Originally posted by Jagosix:

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Wow.., you guys can't afford to pay $4 a month, but complain to other people about buying Surround sound systems with receivers & HDtvs. Please..come up with a better excuse for not paying for Xblive. Some of you spend more than $4 a month on things like, Cigarettes, Beer, candy, Soda, etc.. Heck I'll bet most of you spend more than $4 a day on the items I've just mentioned.

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Most people don't want to pay because they don't find it to be worth it (many are just cheap). I'll play a good campaign over online any day (haven't seen one yet though...). And my friend who has live and high speed DSL and he still constantly gets lag because of people with poop connections and slow servers because people overload them, like Halo 3. You don't really get what you intended to pay for. Ya Live has the biggest community ever with like 10 million people, but it's not like your gonna play with all those people... Most of them just slow you down. PS3 only has 1-2 million but I always have people to play with 24/7 and thats all I care about. Wii, well I haven't tried yet because there aren't too many WiFi games (a plus in my mind) but I will be playin' SBMB a lot over it an since it's so popular I'm pretty sure I'll have good support with that game.

Originally posted by Jagosix:

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I would go on but you get my point. Or do you?

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Not quite ^^

Comment by: DXR88 (Mar 15, 2008 22:03)

Sigh...Here Wii go again.

Quote:

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Some of you spend more than $4 a month on things like, Cigarettes, Beer, candy, Soda.

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heh you just mentioned a Gamers food arsenal.

but you did forget energy drinks how very dissapointed i am.

Energy Drinks are the only things that get me through 70% of GamerWood Game's

Comment by: SProdigy (Mar 16, 2008 14:02)

*sighs*

I explained exactly why the Wii is "a game console" and should be considered a competitor (besides the fact that MS and Sony certainly do.)

Most people are content with SD DVD content and 480i TV broadcasts, even if they are part of the population that owns an HDTV. Not everyone is an AV enthusiast like those that frequent the message boards here at AD. They are not going to own and HDTV, Surround Sound, or even hook their console to the internet.

Also, children do drive a good portion of the gaming industry, which has grown up with many of us. It is segmented. The Wii is trying hit a segment of the customer. I'm sure there are parents that aren't thrilled at even giving their little one the option of grabbing a copy of Condemned or Gears!

Anyhow, in a market where customers are content with SD, and with less tech savvy people or AV enthusiasts, they see no real benefit from the "media center" capabilities (and higher price tag) of the 360 or PS3. That's why the Wii sells.

For the rest of us with our bleeding edge technology, we're left to argue small differences in each of the consoles to prove which one is the best. It's no different than choosing Coke or Pepsi, just a different scale.

Comment by: ChiefBrdy (Mar 16, 2008 14:48)

Originally posted by SProdigy:

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*sighs*

I explained exactly why the Wii is "a game console" and should be considered a competitor (besides the fact that MS and Sony certainly do.)

Most people are content with SD DVD content and 480i TV broadcasts, even if they are part of the population that owns an HDTV. Not everyone is an AV enthusiast like those that frequent the message boards here at AD. They are not going to own and HDTV, Surround Sound, or even hook their console to the internet.

Also, children do drive a good portion of the gaming industry, which has grown up with many of us. It is segmented. The Wii is trying hit a segment of the customer. I'm sure there are parents that aren't thrilled at even giving their little one the option of grabbing a copy of Condemned or Gears!

Anyhow, in a market where customers are content with SD, and with less tech savvy people or AV enthusiasts, they see no real benefit from the "media center" capabilities (and higher price tag) of the 360 or PS3. That's why the Wii sells.

For the rest of us with our bleeding edge technology, we're left to argue small differences in each of the consoles to prove which one is the best. It's no different than choosing Coke or Pepsi, just a different scale.

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I used to agree with that. But it's really no longer the case. Most people used to be content with 8-tracks, albums, cassettes and rabbit ears. CDs and SD is dying in the USA and dead in some other countries. HD is not for enthusiasts anymore. After seeing TV and games in HD, there is no comparison.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Mar 16, 2008 15:55)

vinny13
Live is th best online console service since it has the most offerings, however its costly incomparation to the others and PSN will get to where live is in about 2 years.

SProdigy
I agree with you its a competitor I just will stipulate that most normal gamers have wrote it off as a toy in comparation to their PC/360/PS3.

ChiefBrdy
Its still going to take 5 years for it to get anywhere, thats plenty of time to rake in the cash, hell he WII has already made them twice as much profit as the GC did so the WII ending or not is a not a issue for nin.

Comment by: DieMPAA (Mar 18, 2008 16:31)

Don't worry, XBOX 360, it's coming. They just need to work out the details.

Comment by: DXR88 (Mar 18, 2008 19:24)

Quote:

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DieMPAA-Don't worry, XBOX 360, it's coming. They just need to work out the details.

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yes they have to there is No Excuse why they can't.

if they lag behind it means they Rushed Dev. for nothing. the worse they could do is nothing. and im sure MS doesn't want 18 million people,the majority of developers breathing down there necks.

however im more interested on how there going to deal with this,Come back by Sony.

Comment by: mike.m (Mar 23, 2008 20:33)

Sony is not the 'Official' owner of Blu-Ray, I don't know why everyone thinks they are. It was made by the Blu-Ray Disc Association, and Sony just happens to be big contributors on the Board of Directors (along with the other 180 companies). So it really doesn't matter whether Sony says yes or no.

Comment by: vinny13 (Mar 23, 2008 22:05)

Everyone thinks of Sony because the developed most of it along with Panasonic.

Comment by: Hunt720 (Mar 24, 2008 20:08)

Mike M.
is RIGHT!

Pay attention! (especially those of your bitter HD-DVD buyers who want to blame Sony for EVERYTHING because your dongle for your Xbox is no longer worth it)

Its nice to see that some people do homework before posting.

Comment by: DXR88 (Mar 24, 2008 21:25)

Epic Failure.