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Comment by: ZippyG (Nov 05, 2006 03:11)

The reason I keep mentioning the Dreamcast is that it was very close to the "perfect" console. It was well-marketed, had quality launch games, it had substantially better graphics than what was available at the time of its release, etc. Given the situation, it really couldn't have been executed much better. Yes, hindsight is always 20/20 but I had a DC, I liked it and found its games to be enjoyable. I would like to have seen it survive, as I always liked Sega's attitude.

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How is this information irrelevant? I gave you two vital tools to determine the company's financial health (like, for example, determining nintendo's liquidity.) Called the "current ratio", this can be determined by dividing current assets by current liabilities. Assets are equal to Liabilities and Stockholder's equity. If Assets are at a high, and Stockholders equity is also at a high, than liabilities must be decreased in order for the balance sheet to balance. This means that right now nintendo's ability to pay its liabilities as they become due is rather healthy.

Stockholder's Equity is not just Common Stock. It is also comprised of Retained Earnings, which depends on Revenues and Expenses.

As it were, Nintendo's Current Ratio is 5.59 to 1. (page 19) aka "Very Strong".

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Somebody went on a google/wikipedia rampage huh? Well now that we're all financial analysts - how much of your money are you planning to invest into Nintendo?

You can say someone is rich because they have a lot of money. If they never spend it, you may even see them as being in "great financial shape"...but if they're not making money, and have no real plan to make the amounts of money required to survive in their line of work...how would you know, and would you really feel so sure if you knew that?

The Wii brings you underpowered hardware with a brick-shaped controller that you can wave around to interact.

Hey wait, instead of a controller that you wave around, how about they make a GLOVE that you can move and grab stuff with on the screen! Yeah, they should call it the POWER GLOVE. It is so unique that it will be a huge success!!! Guys, fire up your etrade accounts and buy some Nintendo stock!

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Nov 05, 2006 08:01)

ZippyG

Ture the DC was ok and sega could have kept up with it if not for bad money mismanagement and the Saturn,no matter how rich you are without supplementing the bleeding you wont stay in business long,sega had to down grade or die.

But nintendo is in a hell of a better shape ,the 64 did ok barely but the GC did ok and the WII will do reasonably ok as well.

Sure nintendo tried to hard and not enoug with the gizmo,glove and vitraul boy but thos failed and others took off,the power glove didnt have the ability or games to really make a impact but it was a good testing ground.

again the WII might be lacking but the Wii is the most innovative from a gameplay standpoint,at least understand that much,also try and understand Nintendo with the n64 and wii if you want to fight MS/Sony you have to put the company on the line theres no need a solid 3rd place is better than going under.

Comment by: anubis66 (Nov 05, 2006 13:45)

the wii itself is not innovative in gameplay, but moreso altered the potential of gameplay. certain things can now be done, while other things cannot, and its all up to the developers on how to execute what nintendo has provided them.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Nov 05, 2006 14:53)

anubis66

teh its a basic single analog pad ,which with the dual motion-sensing one for each hand theres no reason to go back,this is a evolution skip in gaming nothing more nothing less,far far beyond whats been tried befor the other systems are so lack luster in their 90's controller design they didn't bother to evolve,the PS3 was forced to since they lost in court while a step forward it just dosent compare to the WII, however in my mind a a dual analog stick wii mote thing would have been better in order to be a mid point to old and new.

Comment by: anubis66 (Nov 05, 2006 15:07)

there is motion sensing in the nunchuck? that might get confusing.

Comment by: ZippyG (Nov 05, 2006 15:53)

I dont doubt that the Wii is unique and different than the 360 or PS3, but the real question is will a new control scheme alone be enough to pull Nintendo's weight along? Different is not always better.

From my point of view, the Wii is very gimmicky. You can get an eyetoy for a PS2 - it's similar in the way that you need to move around physically to interact with the game. The eyetoy was an accessory for the PS2, not a main selling point. Nobody was like "HOLY CRAP! I gotta get me a PS2 so I can play with my eyetoy!". If I was a company, I wouldn't pin my hopes of success on a gimmick.

Controller aside, what is the Wii really offering that that GC doesn't already have the ability to do?

Comment by: anubis66 (Nov 05, 2006 16:43)

plays dvd's, cd's, the sort of thing we saw respectively one and two generations ago.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Nov 05, 2006 17:06)

anubis66

only for 100-200 more you gt a fll media center exp...blah

Yes both have motion sensing,dose that eman it will be used in ever game but think about boxing games and stuff or other thigns that can make having both useful.

ZippyG

and the PS3 is to costly and the 360 is to mismatched.

meh..

Comment by: anubis66 (Nov 05, 2006 17:13)

the ps3 is costly, but when its only 400 of your own dollars it doesnt matter. plus, even if i didnt have help i'd pay for it. the help is only there because i didnt make the cash.

Comment by: oofRome (Nov 05, 2006 22:26)

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Somebody went on a google/wikipedia rampage huh?

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No, it's called a education. I'm a Business Finance major at my university. All I had to do was open the 3-ring binder in my backpack.

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You can say someone is rich because they have a lot of money. If they never spend it, you may even see them as being in "great financial shape"...but if they're not making money, and have no real plan to make the amounts of money required to survive in their line of work...how would you know, and would you really feel so sure if you knew that?

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They are making money! Look at their sales revenue!

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how much of your money are you planning to invest into Nintendo?

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I don't have any money period, much less to invest.

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there is motion sensing in the nunchuck? that might get confusing.

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I doubt the learning curve for an avid gamer such as yourself would be that difficult.

(Or for anyone who is coordinated.)

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Different is not always better.

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For once, I totally agree with you. And while the Wii game reviews are overwhelmingly positive, we really won't know until we have actually played it ourselves.

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Controller aside, what is the Wii really offering that that GC doesn't already have the ability to do?

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Brand-new Wii games.

Comment by: dazila (Nov 06, 2006 00:59)

More Performance then the gamecube

Come and vote for which console you think will be the best just use this link:
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/404298

"A Revolution will happend on the 19th of November",Formula 1 is the best motorsport

Comment by: anubis66 (Nov 06, 2006 01:07)

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I doubt the learning curve for an avid gamer such as yourself would be that difficult.
(Or for anyone who is coordinated.)

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its up to the developer and if they design it comfortably and intuitivly

But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because you're so busy going from a to z, that there's 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...

Comment by: oofRome (Nov 06, 2006 01:29)

I could choose the most odd, weird control style in Red Faction II or 007 and learn it easliy enough within a few minutes. I expect the same thing for the Wii, no matter how it feels.

If it is intuitive, than I expect it to be easier than any analog-stick combination out there right now.

Does that make sense?

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Nov 06, 2006 06:00)

meh I have issues with left and right hands I can't use my left thumb to aim with I have spent months trying to and its bad,have no trouble using my right...did I get that right.......I get right and left confused..alot >< my right thumb to aim with.

my right thumb is for aiming with analog sticks, my left hand is for aiming mice...I am teh screwed *L*


I get fustraed with games that dont have full button mapping options it really annoys me to no end..its cheap and easy to add it to a game takes up little or no space...and would be better than the uber cookie cutter sht they do which sometimes just makes a game unneedlessly harder....

FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
Sony has declared war on importers the consumer will be next with CD's,Videos/Games not far behind that....boycott SONY!
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8062.cfm

Comment by: ZippyG (Nov 06, 2006 12:32)

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No, it's called a education. I'm a Business Finance major at my university. All I had to do was open the 3-ring binder in my backpack.

They are making money! Look at their sales revenue!

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You mean AN education? hehehe Anyway nobody ever said they weren't making money - just that they weren't making enough. In other words, the percentage of revenue generated by the industry that Nintendo gets a part of (market share) is low.

As was stated before, those shareholder reports serve only one purpose - to keep people who think they know about finance to keep pumping money into the company. ;) People who know the real facts are who we call "mega rich".

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how much of your money are you planning to invest into Nintendo?

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I don't have any money period, much less to invest.

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Something tells me that you would invest a lot of money in Nintendo if you did have it.

Comment by: oofRome (Nov 06, 2006 13:52)

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In other words, the percentage of revenue generated by the industry that Nintendo gets a part of (market share) is low.

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You do realize that Microsoft lost around 3-4 billion with the original Xbox. Nintendo made a handsome profit off the GCN, and even though Sony absolutely dominated market share, the profit they made is suprisingly mediocre (in retrospect. still massive, but much less than what you'd expect).

Comment by: ZippyG (Nov 06, 2006 16:59)

Unlike Sony or Microsoft which target multiple sectors of the tech industry, Nintendo does not. There is no Nintendo movies, no Nintendo TVs, Stereos, Speakers, Software (for anything other than a nintendo console), etc. Nintendo's *only* source of revenue is from games and entertainment, and it cannot afford to lose the market share it does have.

Your perception of MS losing money on the XBOX is somewhat misplaced. In business you have short-term and long-term returns to consider. For long-term returns, you often take a hit to your cashflow NOW so that LATER you can reap the benefits. MS strategy works well because it has the massive funds required to play the game they way they do.

It's not unlike walmart selling retail goods at a loss simply to put smaller competitors out of business. As time progresses they rapidly gain market share and incrementally increase the prices on what they sell.

I'm sure that Nintendo is aware of their situation and they're going to do things how they choose...but the way I see it, they can't afford another N64, Virtual Boy or Power Glove flop-out or they will be squeezed out by MS and Sony...and that is something I don't want to see happen, because I do like Nintendo.

Comment by: anubis66 (Nov 06, 2006 17:09)

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I could choose the most odd, weird control style in Red Faction II or 007 and learn it easliy enough within a few minutes. I expect the same thing for the Wii, no matter how it feels.

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im not saying i would have trouple figuring it out thru trial and error, but it doesnt mean it will be fun, enjoyable, or comfortable the way they do it.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Nov 06, 2006 18:28)

ZippyG

you seem to forget that since they don't make everything and "teh kitchen sink",they don't need to have a large market share to survive,in fact that are doing ok,if they were number 2 they could have afforded to go closer to the power of the 360 but chose a slightly different route and most gamers are pleased with the price versus the performance.

Now the real question is can Nintendo take the "minimalists" approach come the next round of new consoles?

Comment by: ZippyG (Nov 06, 2006 20:13)

The price is lower, yes, but you get what you pay for here - a revised gamecube. MS and Sony offer a whole new system, both of which are backward compatible with existing games to an extent. If you already have a GC then you have your "fun" games with "ok" graphics.

As far as market share is concerned - I told you, it's the Walmart effect. The point is that MS and Sony can afford to "lose" money now while Nintendo really can't. If the Xbox360 flops, MS won't go under. If the PS3 bombs, Sony won't go anywhere. Neither of them NEED their console products to survive. If the Wii is DOA then I predict that Nintendo will head down a similar road as Sega did. Think about it...

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Nov 06, 2006 20:21)

ZippyG

wha.....ok.....ummm.....eerrr. the PS2 has been keeping sony AFLOAT.....so will the PS3 if its bombs....they are hurt as much if not more when sega droped the DC,sure they can live off iffy sales of non gaming stuff....but come on if the PS3 bombs they are hurt badly..enough to have to shave off 20-50% of their products.....

Nintendo DOSENT have to or NEED to go uber power ,frankly overlooking things for "power" and or graphics is getting damn near annoying.

I am not the only one tired f the corporate machine crunching out bland cookie cuter games....

Comment by: ZippyG (Nov 06, 2006 20:28)

Well Zipp, I think we can agree on that issue. I too am tired of the lack of differentiation between consoles and the plethora of "me too" games that keep popping up. I remember the days when a particular console was good for certain types of games, and there wasn't really "too much" of any one game.

In a way, you got that with the PS2...which has a good library of RPGs. The GC games have Nintendo's originals and the Xbox has a few gems hidden in huge piles of dung. But it's not like before where there was a clear-cut reason to prefer one console over the other.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Nov 06, 2006 20:54)

ZippyG

this is the main reason why I like the WII,however I have a feeling the "ME TOO" crowd will do more harm than good on the system...I can easily see alot of corporate devs not utilizing the WII mote fully and more...

but right now I am still catching up on PS2 and Xbox and some PC stuff I simply don't have the cash anymore to keep up with the gaming Jone's and right now looking at the wash of poorly dev'd games why would I even if I could barely afford it.

I have been trying to get back into codeing I think I will use Q4 as a spring board I am creative but dumb as a nail sometimes.

Comment by: dazila (Nov 08, 2006 23:54)

The Wii is 2x faster and better gpu then the gamcube damn some of you forget get that alot LOL!

Come and vote for which console you think will be the best just use this link:
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/404298

"A Revolution will happend on the 19th of November",Formula 1 is the best motorsport

Comment by: anubis66 (Nov 09, 2006 00:56)

its almost like someone is talking to themself up there..

i dislike the wii gui, its bulky and kinda of unattractive.