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Comment by: elbald90 (Sep 16, 2009 20:49)

basically they wont be able to sell games which = 0 profit for them, i dont see them being the last to not stock it

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 16, 2009 20:51)

Digi products like physical need a middle man to drive prices down to funnel consumer interest into them. IMO its simple you as a producer "give" items to the sellers under contract and penalty that the producer gets 60% of all sales on that item.

Something like 10K contract at 60% of sold price or 75% of sold price up to the first 20K is taken then reverts to 60% there after.

That way the market will be maintained better because bad stores and sellers can not afford to stay in business so prices will remain at a steady level that's not to high but not to low.

Comment by: rmarier83 (Sep 16, 2009 20:59)

Maybe Sony should figure out a way to do digital trades for the games you download. Most people only play through a game once, especially the ones where the game is 40-200 hours long.

My idea for a digital trade would be that there would be a serial# for each game and Sony's servers will know if this is a game already purchased. You would get a memory card put into your PSP, and you choose the option (they need to make this option too)"Transfer game ownership." This will also delete the game on your PSP as well since you no longer own the game.
Now with the transfer game data on your Memory card, you have two options: put it back onto your PSP (you changed your mind about selling it) or give it away.
Now then since this data you have isn't even the game data, there would be no need to copy the game over (you can also give the option of including the game data, but you would still need to connect to Sony's servers to authenticate the new owner's serial# and lock it down on that system.) Those games can be quite big and just having the data (which of course is highly encrypted)would be a lot faster.
If you decide to sell it on something like Ebay, then you would need to copy it to a computer and upload that data somewhere where the buyer can access that data online and download it, or just burn to a CD and mail it.
The only problem with this theory of mine is that there would probably be no way of implementing it into a system of distribution that has already been built. Another is that the encryption data that you get copied will get cracked by data hackers and will need to be super secure.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 16, 2009 21:03)

Originally posted by rmarier83:

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Maybe Sony should figure out a way to do digital trades for the games you download. Most people only play through a game once, especially the ones where the game is 40-200 hours long.

My idea for a digital trade would be that there would be a serial# for each game and Sony's servers will know if this is a game already purchased. You would get a memory card put into your PSP, and you choose the option (they need to make this option too)"Transfer game ownership." This will also delete the game on your PSP as well since you no longer own the game.
Now with the transfer game data on your Memory card, you have two options: put it back onto your PSP (you changed your mind about selling it) or give it away.
Now then since this data you have isn't even the game data, there would be no need to copy the game over (you can also give the option of including the game data, but you would still need to connect to Sony's servers to authenticate the new owner's serial# and lock it down on that system.) Those games can be quite big and just having the data (which of course is highly encrypted)would be a lot faster.
If you decide to sell it on something like Ebay, then you would need to copy it to a computer and upload that data somewhere where the buyer can access that data online and download it, or just burn to a CD and mail it.
The only problem with this theory of mine is that there would probably be no way of implementing it into a system of distribution that has already been built. Another is that the encryption data that you get copied will get cracked by data hackers and will need to be super secure.

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Not bad heres the ieda I am working on

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Getting down and dirty with retail distribution in the digital age.

Digi products like physical need a middle man to drive prices down to funnel consumer interest into them. IMO its simple you as a producer/publisher “give" items to the sellers under contract and penalty that the producer/publisher gets 60% of all sales on that item.


Something like 10K contract at 60% of sold price or 75% of sold price up to the first 20K is taken then reverts to 60% thereafter. Think of it like a reverse of steam or live where the makers go to the buyers and have them distribute the goods at the buyers cost where the brunt of the revenue goes to the makers.

Further expand this to the re sale of used digi goods, what is sold is the license key if it’s bad the product becomes worthless however if its good it can be resold at the market rate with the publisher/producer getting a 30% cut of the sale.


That way the market will be maintained better because bad stores and sellers cannot afford to stay in business so prices will remain at a steady level that's not to high but not too low all the while publishers stay in money from all the items moving around.

The key is tracked via IP and account if the key goes bad the owner of the item in question can request a new key

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However the key is tracked via IP and account to gvie the end user some protection from key theft, you have to remove all forms of physical production from digi distribution so I don;t think getting a key disc is that fisable, but I do not think its much worse than having to watch and track key useage because both will cost money..

Comment by: 21Q (Sep 16, 2009 21:36)

Never thought of that. Maybe they could sell games online, but sell sort of memory stick that has some sort of digital signing that is required to play the game. Half the price is the online download, while the other half is for the code. Now there is a lot of room for piracy there, but it's not my job to work this stuff out is it ;]

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 16, 2009 21:40)

Originally posted by 21Q:

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Never thought of that. Maybe they could sell games online, but sell sort of memory stick that has some sort of digital signing that is required to play the game. Half the price is the online download, while the other half is for the code. Now there is a lot of room for piracy there, but it's not my job to work this stuff out is it ;]

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meh my way everything is handeld digitally when its resold a portion of the price goes to the publisher.

Comment by: 21Q (Sep 16, 2009 21:44)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Originally posted by 21Q:

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Never thought of that. Maybe they could sell games online, but sell sort of memory stick that has some sort of digital signing that is required to play the game. Half the price is the online download, while the other half is for the code. Now there is a lot of room for piracy there, but it's not my job to work this stuff out is it ;]

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meh my way everything is handeld digitally when its resold a portion of the price goes to the publisher.

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Ahh I see. I like your idea better. From what I understand, a consumer can sell his purchased digi product to anotherr user, however the maker of said product still gains revenue from this reselling? I can actually see that happening withing my life time the way things are going.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 16, 2009 21:50)

Originally posted by 21Q:

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Originally posted by 21Q:

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Never thought of that. Maybe they could sell games online, but sell sort of memory stick that has some sort of digital signing that is required to play the game. Half the price is the online download, while the other half is for the code. Now there is a lot of room for piracy there, but it's not my job to work this stuff out is it ;]

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meh my way everything is handeld digitally when its resold a portion of the price goes to the publisher.

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Ahh I see. I like your idea better. From what I understand, a consumer can sell his purchased digi product to anotherr user, however the maker of said product still gains revenue from this reselling? I can actually see that happening withing my life time the way things are going.

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Its the most balanced way to do it, now I doubt publishers would want to contract off selling of their stuff at a rate the seller sets and they get a proportionate cut of the sale but if they could get around 30% of "used" sale prices. The gears of trade is greased in a full circle from the publisher back to the publisher again. And better yet if they allow sellers to sale at their own rates while taking 60% of the sale price everything is balanced in a way to keep items freely moving in any market situation.

As long as items are movie a profit is being made,eve more so if developers of all kinda of media sign up under the larger publisher houses it a pub gets 30-50% of a sale and the dev gets 50-70% of a sale everyone gets enough of a cut to keep on making stuff.

Comment by: TBandit (Sep 17, 2009 06:07)

Very good points to consider evening if you're thinking of buying a GO.

Comment by: dab0ne (Sep 17, 2009 06:36)

after sony's recent business drought i'm not surprised they want to make a game monopoly. They need something to pull them back up a little. That doesn't mean it's right, I just understand why they may be taking the route they are.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 17, 2009 06:38)

Originally posted by dab0ne:

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after sony's recent business drought i'm not surprised they want to make a game monopoly. They need something to pull them back up a little. That doesn't mean it's right, I just understand why they may be taking the route they are.

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It's not just sony that will do it... one of the big 3 had to take the first step and sony has done it for the PSP.

Comment by: KillerBug (Sep 17, 2009 08:02)

It's funny...no one seems to care that all UMD games must me registered, approved, and printed by Sony. No one seems to care that every system since the first nintendo has required game developers to pay the console manufacturer for the right to sell their own games...yet you cut out the physical store, and it's an outrage!

The only (remotely) open platform is PC...and even the PC has become a slave to things like "Games for Windows" and "Live"

I have a simpler method for pure-digital (no disks) media:

1.) People buy digital rights to a title. These rights apply to all versions of the same product (GTA4 license would give you access to PS3, 360, and PC versions..."A Beautiful Mind" license would give you access to DVD quality and bluray quality).
2.) Licenses can be sold BACK TO SELLER. If sold within 7 days, it is considered a rental, and most of the consumer's money is returned. The first 28 days will effectivly be 4 rentals. After 28 days, the product may still be sold...but the customer gets back only as much money as they would if they had kept it for five rental periods.
3.) Consumers pick a username and password to associate media with...when they sell it, the license for the product is removed from their username.
4.) When media starts, it contacts server to check that username has a license for product on it. IF no license is found, media fails to launch and automaticaly sends internal IP, external IP, and MAC address to license server.

...This allows the actual media producers to rent media directly, no middle-man. It also allows them to prevent resale of media...the first consumer still gets their sale money, but since there is no such thing as "used", no one buys used.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 17, 2009 08:37)

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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It's funny...no one seems to care that all UMD games must me registered, approved, and printed by Sony. No one seems to care that every system since the first nintendo has required game developers to pay the console manufacturer for the right to sell their own games...yet you cut out the physical store, and it's an outrage!

The only (remotely) open platform is PC...and even the PC has become a slave to things like "Games for Windows" and "Live"

I have a simpler method for pure-digital (no disks) media:

1.) People buy digital rights to a title. These rights apply to all versions of the same product (GTA4 license would give you access to PS3, 360, and PC versions..."A Beautiful Mind" license would give you access to DVD quality and bluray quality).
2.) Licenses can be sold BACK TO SELLER. If sold within 7 days, it is considered a rental, and most of the consumer's money is returned. The first 28 days will effectivly be 4 rentals. After 28 days, the product may still be sold...but the customer gets back only as much money as they would if they had kept it for five rental periods.
3.) Consumers pick a username and password to associate media with...when they sell it, the license for the product is removed from their username.
4.) When media starts, it contacts server to check that username has a license for product on it. IF no license is found, media fails to launch and automaticaly sends internal IP, external IP, and MAC address to license server.

...This allows the actual media producers to rent media directly, no middle-man. It also allows them to prevent resale of media...the first consumer still gets their sale money, but since there is no such thing as "used", no one buys used.

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same thing as mine really.

Comment by: pphoenix (Sep 17, 2009 09:18)

Quote:

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- No UMD drive means games MUST be purchased through Sony, at a price determined by Sony.

- No chance of reselling the games or trading with friends.

- No chance of buying the games cheaper, used.

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shame all retailers don't do this, propertarian lock-ups as usual with sony.

sony want you to purchase a bit of hardware from them and be locked into their brand forever, surely cheaper prices with better equipment than the opposition is the way to achieve this not by screwing over customers.

Originally posted by rmarier83:

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Maybe Sony should figure out a way to do digital trades for the games you download. Most people only play through a game once, especially the ones where the game is 40-200 hours long.

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sony don't want you to be able to trade anything they want everyone to be forced into purchasing new content only. did you know about their patent that they are sitting on ready?

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jul/10/business/fi-sony10

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July 10, 2006

Sony Corp. has patented technology that would prevent its PlayStation consoles from playing used, rented or borrowed video games -- raising questions about whether the electronics and entertainment giant may attempt to redefine what it means to own something in the digital age.

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Comment by: glassd (Sep 17, 2009 12:41)

So Sony should follow MS and Apples lead and let you resell thoes Zoon and Ipod apps/music/games just like MS and Apple does?

Comment by: pirkster (Sep 17, 2009 17:14)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Digi products like physical need a middle man to drive prices down to funnel consumer interest into them. IMO its simple you as a producer "give" items to the sellers under contract and penalty that the producer gets 60% of all sales on that item.

Something like 10K contract at 60% of sold price or 75% of sold price up to the first 20K is taken then reverts to 60% there after.

That way the market will be maintained better because bad stores and sellers can not afford to stay in business so prices will remain at a steady level that's not to high but not to low.

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Hello... the "middle man" is what makes prices higher. Each hand a product passes through before it reaches the end consumer marks up the price so everyone in the chain gets their bite of the pie.

Comment by: pirkster (Sep 17, 2009 17:14)

Originally posted by shaffaaf:

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fair enough. im sure there are many other places that will

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Absolutely. Not a wise business decision at all.

Comment by: pphoenix (Sep 17, 2009 20:16)

Originally posted by pirkster :

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Originally posted by shaffaaf:

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fair enough. im sure there are many other places that will

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Absolutely. Not a wise business decision at all.

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but do customers want a product that they are blocked by sony from purchasing second hand games, selling on their titles and sony holding the monopoly over game prices?

Comment by: glassd (Sep 17, 2009 20:47)

Quote:

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Originally posted by pirkster :

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Originally posted by shaffaaf:

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fair enough. im sure there are many other places that will

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Absolutely. Not a wise business decision at all.

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but do customers want a product that they are blocked by sony from purchasing second hand games, selling on their titles and sony holding the monopoly over game prices?

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Seams to be working for Apple with the Ipod and Iphone apps. If you can sell the apps, songs etc... that you have bought, I did not know about it. I was not aware that you could sell the games and such that you bought off of PSN, XBL or Wii network. Oh yeah, you cant.

Comment by: shaffaaf (Sep 17, 2009 21:53)

Quote:

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Originally posted by pirkster :

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Originally posted by shaffaaf:

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fair enough. im sure there are many other places that will

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Absolutely. Not a wise business decision at all.

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but do customers want a product that they are blocked by sony from purchasing second hand games, selling on their titles and sony holding the monopoly over game prices?

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you realise there is an option for the psp3000 if you feel like you need to sell games

Comment by: DXR88 (Sep 18, 2009 00:14)

i don't trust Virtual Copies of a software product there are to many ways a Company can juice a product for every thing its worth. more so, now that they have complete control over distribution.

do you think Sony MS or Apple is going to increases the producers cut simply because its virtual. i don't think so.

in a very cliché moment. Sony is now the judge jury and executioner of PSP Go Software sales

Comment by: glassd (Sep 18, 2009 12:14)

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you realise there is an option for the psp3000 if you feel like you need to sell games

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Yep. That is a choice. You can get either one. But as far as the GO, Apple and MS products with digital DL, there is not a resell value. Just refering to the ones that thinks that this is Sony's new evil creation. Sony is following others lead in this case. Something that has worked well with Apple.These are the same people that gripe about UMD and praise Digital Download. The GO now offers DDL and all of a sudden its a bad thing?
Sony is the only one of these that even give you the option. 3000 with a Hard Copy or GO with a Digital Copy.

Comment by: cdxanti (Sep 18, 2009 14:42)

This basically kills the resellers profit because they make a one time profit off the system and that's it. Theirs no way for places like gamestop to make any money off the system.

Comment by: pirkster (Sep 18, 2009 15:59)

Originally posted by cdxanti:

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This basically kills the resellers profit because they make a one time profit off the system and that's it. Theirs no way for places like gamestop to make any money off the system.

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They surely will profit, but off the old PSP and it's games.

Especially if the "uproar" turns out to be actually as big a deal as those in this thread are advertising.

Comment by: onewhite (Sep 19, 2009 01:09)

I thought that Monopolies like this are illegal. This is a good example of highly restrictive trade practices. The fact that Sony is global makes it very difficult to take them through court action. Very expensive. Only a government agency could get Sony to operate a free market. Remember when you could buy a book or a game (before game consoles), read it, loan it, sell it, give it away! Why are we are not allowed to still do this? Because 'The Man' wants to squeeze every last bit of cash it can out of a product. Those who made/develop the product do not get their fair share of the money, only the big company like Sony. I think an anti-trust case needs to be taken up by the USA. Then Sony would change their way. The only ones to REALLY make money would be the lawyers. :)/