News

Comment by: Jemborg (Jun 06, 2009 22:14)

"...won't work". Zip, the Emotiv EPOC neuralheadset for PCs is on sale in a few months- get over yourself.

You insist that the 3d effect doesn't work- and it already obviously does. And you've said that BCI devices are 10+ years away, won't work with existing games and apps... and you're wrong about that too. You really display some outstanding wilful ignorance here. How seriously can anybody take your opinions?

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jun 06, 2009 22:20)

Originally posted by Jemborg:

---

"...won't work". Zip, the emotiv EPOC neuralheadset for PCs is on sale in a few months- get over it.

---

And like motion control will hit the mainstream non niche market in 10-20 years.......

Comment by: Jemborg (Jun 07, 2009 01:46)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

Originally posted by Jemborg:

---

"...won't work". Zip, the Emotiv EPOC neuralheadset for PCs is on sale in a few months- get over yourself.

You insist that the 3d effect doesn't work- and it already obviously does. And you've said that BCI devices are 10+ years away, won't work with existing games and apps... and you're wrong about that too. You really display some outstanding wilful ignorance here. How seriously can anybody take your opinions?

---

And like motion control will hit the mainstream non niche market in 10-20 years.......

---

So, a tacit admission you were wrong... let's stealthily segue into another brick wall mentality, LOL.

No, not necessarily, not if it's cheap, works with existing software and games, and has development kits available (and is infinitely more flexible)... unlike motion control. Admittedly it is radical, but you talk like people who scoffed at the idea of Personal Computers.

Hell, you just found out it existed! How much do you know about it? How much thought have you put into it? Bugger all!

As I said, with such a mind-boggling display of wilful ignorance who can take your opining seriously?

PS: It's wireless too. :P

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.

Comment by: DXR88 (Jun 07, 2009 05:04)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

Originally posted by DXR88:

---

Originally posted by ikari:

---

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by inagasake:

---

I'm not gonna rain on your parade. If you're having fun, that's all that matters.

---

This needs to be implemented into some people's minds.

---

This is the start of the slippery slope, when good enough is good enough it means as long as its sales its good enough because consumers are sheep that can easily buy into anything because they can not hold out for better.......

Crap in crap out.....its endless and monolithic...

---

Inagaske, Zippy is way too focused on not having fun, being negative, and then uses the "everyone is a sheep" excuse to try to make people feel stupid. I am shocked that varnull hasn't stop by yet to make this another anti-sony/consumer thread.

Back to the point, Sony and Microsoft are finally trying to do what the Wii should have done, just with two different methods. Watching the Sony presentation on the 1 to 1 motion control makes me want a gladiator game right now. Imagine fun that would be.

---

I'm amazed, simply amazed at the arrogance of other people. it really knows no bounds.

---

Well... the fact is..... everyone is sheep, the great masses are simplistic fools who are happy 7 times out of 10 with any slop they are given to purchase, while everyone else is grouped into the black sheeple category where the inane elitists,haters and people who just want higher averages for qaulity(me) and cannibals(funny how wolves and black sheep are under the same category...that tells you how sad humans are).

Now on to fun you are a huge fan of FF11(or other blatantly poorly made or unfinished games)....I would stipulate you don't know what fun is...or perhaps you can make anything fun which is a blessing as much as it is a cruse because you are happy keeping yourself entertained much like nero did whuile the world burned around im.........

DXR88/Morreale
Oooooo you think thats funny eh?!?! *wuubbeee wubbeee wuuubbeeee* a wise guy eh!?!??!
ggaaa.... I didnt know I had Curly in my head >>

Jemborg
Its not going backwards with tech motion sentencing has not even hit pucrty in the video game industry and you want to dismiss it already....

Plus until you put LCD screens on the headset its going to be MOOT because unless you have a 50foot screen 5+ feet in front of you you wont be able to see sht, because your tilting your view away from the screen.

I would hardly call the eye toy anything but a gimmick it requires much to much to make it work, bands on the wrists/ankles would be much more precise and easy to use than 2 or 3 cameras you have to setup yourself..

---

i wasn't referring to you zippy, i don't stab friends in the back no matter how bland my video game tastes.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jun 07, 2009 06:11)

Originally posted by Jemborg:

---

So, a tacit admission you were wrong... let's stealthily segue into another brick wall mentality, LOL.

Hell, you just found out it existed! How much do you know about it? How much thought have you put into it? Bugger all!

As I said, with such a mind-boggling display of wilful ignorance who can take your opining seriously?

---

Just realized that's why it sucked as a seamless/polished/precise device, that's all.

Quote:

---

No, not necessarily, not if it's cheap, works with existing software and games, and has development kits available (and is infinitely more flexible)... unlike motion control. Admittedly it is radical, but you talk like people who scoffed at the idea of Personal Computers.

---

And you act like this thing is more precise than a game pad or mouse and keyboard all its capable of doing is rudimentary screen movement, I have yet to see it do 3-8 or more tasks at once, if anything it would be an add on for the main control method making it...pointless and gimmicky(like the eye toy).

We've still yet to see a solid and comprehensive motion control system for gaming.... the wii is cute but handicapped by design.

It took motion senseing a decade plus to wind its way down from the niches of consumer electronics almost 20(for the camera variant) if you count the motion capturing work done in film in the 80's to bring motion senseing via camera to make it to gaming, head motion/body alone is not going to cut it neural senseing might but its going to need a few heavy revisions to the hardware to keep up with the needs of gaming on all levels other wise it will be like the wii very loose and not very good for any kind of complex or precise gaming.

If it worked better than advertised(think=do) then yes it would be revolutionary for many things but...we are not there yet.... and wont be for the foreseeable future.

Quote:

---

PS: It's wireless too. :P

---

I wouldn't call the WII mote wireless it requires IR beams to function :P

Hopefully the damn thing has forward/back sensors so a senor bar is unneeded...and really that's all any motion control system needs to bring us into the next faze of control interfacing and innovation..

The WII was a good baby step in motion control for gaming but it lacks so much and I have yet to see a true dual hand held control system to even try and polish up the fundamental idea the WII brought us.
==================================================
DXR88

You love FF11, its like crack only twice as bad. Its not good for uuuuu!!!! :P

Comment by: Mr-Movies (Jun 07, 2009 16:06)

Sony and MS are finally waking up to getting their buts kicked by the Wii a cheaper console with worst graphics that didn't take a decade to produce like PS3. It's about time they see the light.

Zippy you need to lighten up you are far from an expert and have been wrong with your rants way too many times. We will have to change your call name to Varnull.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jun 07, 2009 16:23)

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:

---

Sony and MS are finally waking up to getting their buts kicked by the Wii a cheaper console with worst graphics that didn't take a decade to produce like PS3. It's about time they see the light.

Zippy you need to lighten up you are far from an expert and have been wrong with your rants way too many times. We will have to change your call name to Varnull.

---

I can't I am a self righteous pain in the ass who's a pain in his own ass, also I am surprised no one noticed I contradicted myself in saying it will work once the kinks are worked out of it :P

Seriously though I would think it would be silly to say that the EPOC/motion headset will show up for mainstream gaming in the next 5 years 6 to 10 perhaps but I doubt it because you need to much precise information exchange.

The eye toy will remain a gimmick like Saxis used randomly with varying effects and so far the natal is exacerbated remote with no real forethought into it.

Comment by: inagasake (Jun 07, 2009 16:50)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

Well... the fact is..... everyone is sheep, the great masses are simplistic fools who are happy 7 times out of 10 with any slop they are given to purchase, while everyone else is grouped into the black sheeple category where the inane elitists,haters and people who just want higher averages for qaulity(me) and cannibals(funny how wolves and black sheep are under the same category...that tells you how sad humans are).

Now on to fun you are a huge fan of FF11(or other blatantly poorly made or unfinished games)....I would stipulate you don't know what fun is...or perhaps you can make anything fun which is a blessing as much as it is a cruse because you are happy keeping yourself entertained much like nero did whuile the world burned around im.........

---

If people are having fun with something that they bought, then good. They are getting their money's worth. When it comes to media entertainment, I can be difficult to please. I don't have the patience for video games that make you work excessively and repetitively in exchange for a shot of endorphins. Final Fantasy XI comes to mind. I play games to wind down and have fun. I feel that game designers of games like FFXI and WoW have forgot that games should be fun, not work.

Of course there are plenty of people that find FFXI and WoW to be fun and I'm not raining on their parade. But I really would like to understand what makes those games "tick" for them. Because I just can't wrap my head around it. From my perspective, grinding like crazy to get top levels and doing countless runs/rains for items is all about e-peen/e-status. It's not fun to me. But obviously there are people who somehow get a release of dopamine and endorphins from these MMORPGs (whether it be from e-peen/e-status or maybe something else). I wonder what makes their experience different. I've heard before that people who are into MMORPGs have more addictive personalities so that might be it. It seems like you need an addictive personality or OCD personality to really get your enjoyment from a MMORPG.

My MMORPG addict friend often comments that I probably don't like MMORPGs because I'm lazy. Says I don't want to put in the work for my items. But I think he's missing the point. Games are not supposed to feel like a job. We're supposed to be having fun with games. Why should we put up with the same monotony in games as we do in day-to-day real life? If putting items in a treasure chest in a non-random dungeon or making them available at a shop just like in single-player RPGs makes a game lazy, then call me lazy. I'd rather play a game to actually enjoy the fights, story, adventuring or whatever rather than to repetitively grind out for levels and item hunting. Not to mention that MMORPGs are a time sink that take away from time you could have spent on other video games. After awhile, you get sick of playing the same game. It's like eating the same food all the time.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jun 07, 2009 17:00)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

Well... the fact is..... everyone is sheep, the great masses are simplistic fools who are happy 7 times out of 10 with any slop they are given to purchase, while everyone else is grouped into the black sheeple category where the inane elitists,haters and people who just want higher averages for qaulity(me) and cannibals(funny how wolves and black sheep are under the same category...that tells you how sad humans are).

Now on to fun you are a huge fan of FF11(or other blatantly poorly made or unfinished games)....I would stipulate you don't know what fun is...or perhaps you can make anything fun which is a blessing as much as it is a cruse because you are happy keeping yourself entertained much like nero did whuile the world burned around im.........

---

If people are having fun with something that they bought, then good. They are getting their money's worth. When it comes to media entertainment, I can be difficult to please. I don't have the patience for video games that make you work excessively and repetitively in exchange for a shot of endorphins. Final Fantasy XI comes to mind. I play games to wind down and have fun. I feel that game designers of games like FFXI and WoW have forgot that games should be fun, not work.

Of course there are plenty of people that find FFXI and WoW to be fun and I'm not raining on their parade. But I really would like to understand what makes those games "tick" for them. Because I just can't wrap my head around it. From my perspective, grinding like crazy to get top levels and doing countless runs/rains for items is all about e-peen/e-status. It's not fun to me. But obviously there are people who somehow get a release of dopamine and endorphins from these MMORPGs (whether it be from e-peen/e-status or maybe something else). I wonder what makes their experience different. I've heard before that people who are into MMORPGs have more addictive personalities so that might be it. It seems like you need an addictive personality or OCD personality to really get your enjoyment from a MMORPG.

---

god I agree
I am slightly OCD and ADHD when it comes to RPGs I can not stand bland level design and crappy equipment(FF12 is draggy as hell and almost unplayable due to crap equipment and worse skill system) same comes to FPSs(Halo ep 3 has a 8 hour SP campaign might as well not have a SP side if tis that short...) really I love exploring a level and taking advantage of AI gun and run corridor games don't even try to be deep and that just kills me.


Modern gaming is more about flash and quick forgettable entertainment than anythign else and it burns me to no end..... wheres the depth/beef!

Comment by: inagasake (Jun 07, 2009 17:32)

Yeah even single-player RPGs can overdo it. RPG developers add filler (long, slow, convoluted plots and dialogue) and time sinks (grinding and what not) so that they can boast 40+, 60+, 80+, 100+, 120+ hour gameplay on the back cover. Because the really OCD hardcore RPG fans demand that kind of game time. JRPG developers are more notorious for this because they stuff the extra filler into the main quest as opposed to the optional side quests. I still play RPGs since I somewhat grew up with them (even the really long ones like DQ7) but I can't tolerate as much slow-pace and monotony as I used to so I may want to reconsider my policy of buying them regularly. lol. But some do manage to maintain my interest by keeping things interesting and fun. And worst case scenario, if you manage to get one that doesn't work out for you, it's no where near as monotonous and a time sink as a MMORPG.

I beat Lost Odyssey recently. It started out great and all but after awhile, I really wanted the game to end. And that game didn't have all that much grinding until Disc 4. The cutscenes were excessive and the story moved at a snail's pace. Playing a non-rpg concurrently with these games or a different genre right away is a must to break up the monotony.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jun 07, 2009 17:41)

Originally posted by inagasake:

---

Yeah even single-player RPGs can overdo it. RPG developers add filler (long, slow, convoluted plots and dialogue) and time sinks (grinding and what not) so that they can boast 40+, 60+, 80+, 100+, 120+ hour gameplay on the back cover. Because the really OCD hardcore RPG fans demand that kind of game time. JRPG developers are more notorious for this because they stuff the extra filler into the main quest as opposed to the optional side quests. I still play RPGs since I somewhat grew up with them (even the really long ones like DQ7) but I can't tolerate as much slow-pace and monotony as I used to so I may want to reconsider my policy of buying them regularly. lol. But some do manage to maintain my interest by keeping things interesting and fun. And worst case scenario, if you manage to get one that doesn't work out for you, it's no where near as monotonous and a time sink as a MMORPG.

I beat Lost Odyssey recently. It started out great and all but after awhile, I really wanted the game to end. And that game didn't have all that much grinding until Disc 4. The cutscenes were excessive and the story moved at a snail's pace. Playing a non-rpg concurrently with these games or a different genre right away is a must to break up the monotony.

---

Thats why I love my code break and hate the new systems treat such devices as CP violations they are screwing out fun every chance they get....

Comment by: DXR88 (Jun 07, 2009 21:32)

RPG's are supposed have insanely large storyline. what kills many a rpg is sometimes they overdo it by adding piles of subsets on top of the game.

like chain attacks, skill sets, upgrades, elemental property's.

FF1-9 where the most straight forward in terms of game play, FF10 and up not so much also keep in mind this was also the time enix performed its hostile take over of square's dev crew. you now have a ff game with an enix idea on rpg's. play a couple of DQ games and you'll see what i mean. DQ was also one of my favorite RPG's along with Lunar series notably the SEGA CD Version.

but there all oldies, goody's but oldies.

FF11 is dead slow but the real fun begins when you reach lvl 65+, at these levels certain thing become available that really bring out the square soft in the way of thinking.

my favorite RPG developers are as follows Tri-ace, Namco,Square Soft,Enix, level-5,and Camelot.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jun 07, 2009 22:08)

Originally posted by DXR88:

---

RPG's are supposed have insanely large storyline. what kills many a rpg is sometimes they overdo it by adding piles of subsets on top of the game.

like chain attacks, skill sets, upgrades, elemental property's.

FF1-9 where the most straight forward in terms of game play, FF10 and up not so much also keep in mind this was also the time enix performed its hostile take over of square's dev crew. you now have a ff game with an enix idea on rpg's. play a couple of DQ games and you'll see what i mean. DQ was also one of my favorite RPG's along with Lunar series notably the SEGA CD Version.

but there all oldies, goody's but oldies.

FF11 is dead slow but the real fun begins when you reach lvl 65+, at these levels certain thing become available that really bring out the square soft in the way of thinking.

my favorite RPG developers are as follows Tri-ace, Namco,Square Soft,Enix, level-5,and Camelot.

---

DQ8 annoyed me to no end, I loved FF 4,6,7 and 9 but 8,10 and 12 are hella weak, FF8 is a mess pure and simple, FF10's only problem is its a RPG lite I did like the sphere grid system(only not the item aspect of it) and I liked the ability to customize a weapon/equipment but it came in to late to truly save the game from its redundant fate.

And its nice to know soemone else played a real lunar game and not the painted up and whored out casual remakes, the PSP is getting some remakes of lunar I will eat my hat if it has the battle field system with proper weapons and what not from the original titles...

DW7 was cute but god did it lose me, my last fav DQ game was 4 or 3, sad eh?.

Speaking of crap RPGs Breath of fire has fallen eh? I have not kept up with Wild arms I go the remake and god is it awful...

Comment by: DXR88 (Jun 07, 2009 22:26)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by DXR88:

---

RPG's are supposed have insanely large storyline. what kills many a rpg is sometimes they overdo it by adding piles of subsets on top of the game.

like chain attacks, skill sets, upgrades, elemental property's.

FF1-9 where the most straight forward in terms of game play, FF10 and up not so much also keep in mind this was also the time enix performed its hostile take over of square's dev crew. you now have a ff game with an enix idea on rpg's. play a couple of DQ games and you'll see what i mean. DQ was also one of my favorite RPG's along with Lunar series notably the SEGA CD Version.

but there all oldies, goody's but oldies.

FF11 is dead slow but the real fun begins when you reach lvl 65+, at these levels certain thing become available that really bring out the square soft in the way of thinking.

my favorite RPG developers are as follows Tri-ace, Namco,Square Soft,Enix, level-5,and Camelot.

---

DQ8 annoyed me to no end, I loved FF 4,6,7 and 9 but 8,10 and 12 are hella weak, FF8 is a mess pure and simple, FF10's only problem is its a RPG lite I did like the sphere grid system(only not the item aspect of it) and I liked the ability to customize a weapon/equipment but it came in to late to truly save the game from its redundant fate.

And its nice to know soemone else played a real lunar game and not the painted up and whored out casual remakes, the PSP is getting some remakes of lunar I will eat my hat if it has the battle field system with proper weapons and what not from the original titles...

DW7 was cute but god did it lose me, my last fav DQ game was 4 or 3, sad eh?.

Speaking of crap RPGs Breath of fire has fallen eh? I have not kept up with Wild arms I go the remake and god is it awful...

---

BoF 1&3, where good.

Star Ocean SNES JP was a jewel, as was Tales of phantasia SNES JP. both are censored in terms of dialog. ToP JP had sexual remarks cut out, as with its cursewords. the same with Star Ocean only its worse as it can throw you off story.

GoldenSun by Camelot was a master piece, if you ask me.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jun 07, 2009 22:34)

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by DXR88:

---

RPG's are supposed have insanely large storyline. what kills many a rpg is sometimes they overdo it by adding piles of subsets on top of the game.

like chain attacks, skill sets, upgrades, elemental property's.

FF1-9 where the most straight forward in terms of game play, FF10 and up not so much also keep in mind this was also the time enix performed its hostile take over of square's dev crew. you now have a ff game with an enix idea on rpg's. play a couple of DQ games and you'll see what i mean. DQ was also one of my favorite RPG's along with Lunar series notably the SEGA CD Version.

but there all oldies, goody's but oldies.

FF11 is dead slow but the real fun begins when you reach lvl 65+, at these levels certain thing become available that really bring out the square soft in the way of thinking.

my favorite RPG developers are as follows Tri-ace, Namco,Square Soft,Enix, level-5,and Camelot.

---

DQ8 annoyed me to no end, I loved FF 4,6,7 and 9 but 8,10 and 12 are hella weak, FF8 is a mess pure and simple, FF10's only problem is its a RPG lite I did like the sphere grid system(only not the item aspect of it) and I liked the ability to customize a weapon/equipment but it came in to late to truly save the game from its redundant fate.

And its nice to know soemone else played a real lunar game and not the painted up and whored out casual remakes, the PSP is getting some remakes of lunar I will eat my hat if it has the battle field system with proper weapons and what not from the original titles...

DW7 was cute but god did it lose me, my last fav DQ game was 4 or 3, sad eh?.

Speaking of crap RPGs Breath of fire has fallen eh? I have not kept up with Wild arms I go the remake and god is it awful...

---

BoF 1&3, where good.

Star Ocean SNES JP was a jewel, as was Tales of phantasia SNES JP. both are censored in terms of dialog. ToP JP had sexual remarks cut out, as with its cursewords. the same with Star Ocean only its worse as it can throw you off story.

GoldenSun by Camelot was a master piece, if you ask me.

---

I consider Golden sun on par with lufia and other B class SNES RPGs fun but missing something to be perfect, I didn't like BOF 2/3 so much I LOVED bof4 it was fucking beautiful and rushed and short >< BOF 5 is a joke....

Comment by: inagasake (Jun 08, 2009 01:01)

Originally posted by DXR88:

---

RPG's are supposed have insanely large storyline. what kills many a rpg is sometimes they overdo it by adding piles of subsets on top of the game.

like chain attacks, skill sets, upgrades, elemental property's.

FF1-9 where the most straight forward in terms of game play, FF10 and up not so much also keep in mind this was also the time enix performed its hostile take over of square's dev crew. you now have a ff game with an enix idea on rpg's. play a couple of DQ games and you'll see what i mean. DQ was also one of my favorite RPG's along with Lunar series notably the SEGA CD Version.

but there all oldies, goody's but oldies.

FF11 is dead slow but the real fun begins when you reach lvl 65+, at these levels certain thing become available that really bring out the square soft in the way of thinking.

my favorite RPG developers are as follows Tri-ace, Namco,Square Soft,Enix, level-5,and Camelot.

---

I'm pretty sure the 16-bit jRPGs had shorter main quests from what I remember. Even though the games did requiremore grinding then. It wasn't until the PS1 where long length became pretty standard. I don't get how length in RPGs is equated by the hardcore jRPG fanbase with quality. Most video games, even jRPGs, don't have the storylines to justify slow-paced stories. When I watch a movie, I don't think "I'm not getting my money's worth" when I'm watching an entertaining or thought provoking 90 minute movie compared to a 3+ hour long epic that I fell asleep in. So never understood this mentality that a 20/25 hour jrpg is blasphemy. It's the same when I'm reading a good novel that's 200-300 pages instead of one that is 700+ and puts me to sleep. Even if you put up a quality short movie/novel to a quality long movie/novel, how often do people think, "I didn't get my money's worth from the short movie/novel"?

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jun 08, 2009 01:09)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by DXR88:

---

RPG's are supposed have insanely large storyline. what kills many a rpg is sometimes they overdo it by adding piles of subsets on top of the game.

like chain attacks, skill sets, upgrades, elemental property's.

FF1-9 where the most straight forward in terms of game play, FF10 and up not so much also keep in mind this was also the time enix performed its hostile take over of square's dev crew. you now have a ff game with an enix idea on rpg's. play a couple of DQ games and you'll see what i mean. DQ was also one of my favorite RPG's along with Lunar series notably the SEGA CD Version.

but there all oldies, goody's but oldies.

FF11 is dead slow but the real fun begins when you reach lvl 65+, at these levels certain thing become available that really bring out the square soft in the way of thinking.

my favorite RPG developers are as follows Tri-ace, Namco,Square Soft,Enix, level-5,and Camelot.

---

I'm pretty sure the 16-bit jRPGs had shorter main quests from what I remember. Even though the games did requiremore grinding then. It wasn't until the PS1 where long length became pretty standard. I don't get how length in RPGs is equated by the hardcore jRPG fanbase with quality. Most video games, even jRPGs, don't have the storylines to justify slow-paced stories. When I watch a movie, I don't think "I'm not getting my money's worth" when I'm watching an entertaining or thought provoking 90 minute movie compared to a 3+ hour long epic that I fell asleep in. So never understood this mentality that a 20/25 hour jrpg is blasphemy. It's the same when I'm reading a good novel that's 200-300 pages instead of one that is 700+ and puts me to sleep. Even if you put up a quality short movie/novel to a quality long movie/novel, how often do people think, "I didn't get my money's worth from the short movie/novel"?

---

Well its easy to pad time wasters into a game look at some of the stuff in FF10/12 it was not as quite bad in FF4/6/7 but even then there's a huge difference in equipment at least in pre FF7 stuff, FF7 had less equipment but made up for it with meteria system..

The only RPGs I thought where short were KOTOR and BOF4.

Comment by: Morreale (Jun 08, 2009 01:25)

I've played two Final Fantasy games, Crisis Core on the PSP (which is VII right?) and XII and I thought they were great...

Comment by: inagasake (Jun 08, 2009 01:40)

I sunk in 100+ hours into KOTOR combined light and dark-side playthrough. The main quest itself was short I think but lots of side quests. I think games like KOTOR have the right idea. The content is there but you don't have cutscenes and content rammed down your throat to progress through the game if you don't want to. Though I hated how you had to be a goody two-shoes or a complete psychopath to really get the most out of making your character powerful in that game. I had the misfortune of fighting the end boss quite underpowered when I played as a dark-side character because something happened near the end game that made my dark-side character not be 100% evil anymore. In my light-dark morality meter, I just ended up slightly below full dark side. So I wasn't able to use the most powerful stuff for my dark-side character. Managed to beat the end boss but it's much more difficult than when you fight as a fully light or dark character.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jun 08, 2009 01:52)

inagasake
Dude...kotor did not have alot of content...or equipment.... playing through it twice padded its over all play time, play just one and its to short.

Morreale
Well FF7 aside FF12 has sever equipment and skill issues, FF9 is the pinnacle of FF skill and equipment sets, FF6 can be a bit better. New RPGs have much more subdued if not bland equipment and skill balance (set to grind). FF12 did real time half right and level layouts pretty damn good but characters kinda fail and it hurts the story which is better than the last few FFs(as much as I hate to diss FF9 on any level).

Comment by: DXR88 (Jun 08, 2009 02:02)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by DXR88:

---

RPG's are supposed have insanely large storyline. what kills many a rpg is sometimes they overdo it by adding piles of subsets on top of the game.

like chain attacks, skill sets, upgrades, elemental property's.

FF1-9 where the most straight forward in terms of game play, FF10 and up not so much also keep in mind this was also the time enix performed its hostile take over of square's dev crew. you now have a ff game with an enix idea on rpg's. play a couple of DQ games and you'll see what i mean. DQ was also one of my favorite RPG's along with Lunar series notably the SEGA CD Version.

but there all oldies, goody's but oldies.

FF11 is dead slow but the real fun begins when you reach lvl 65+, at these levels certain thing become available that really bring out the square soft in the way of thinking.

my favorite RPG developers are as follows Tri-ace, Namco,Square Soft,Enix, level-5,and Camelot.

---

I'm pretty sure the 16-bit jRPGs had shorter main quests from what I remember. Even though the games did requiremore grinding then. It wasn't until the PS1 where long length became pretty standard. I don't get how length in RPGs is equated by the hardcore jRPG fanbase with quality. Most video games, even jRPGs, don't have the storylines to justify slow-paced stories. When I watch a movie, I don't think "I'm not getting my money's worth" when I'm watching an entertaining or thought provoking 90 minute movie compared to a 3+ hour long epic that I fell asleep in. So never understood this mentality that a 20/25 hour jrpg is blasphemy. It's the same when I'm reading a good novel that's 200-300 pages instead of one that is 700+ and puts me to sleep. Even if you put up a quality short movie/novel to a quality long movie/novel, how often do people think, "I didn't get my money's worth from the short movie/novel"?

---

thats why RPGers frown on bad story lines, who wants to buy a game to fall asleep. i find that RPG's that contain humor,suspense,and plot twists are more likely to get my vote. Lost Odyssey however had a bit to much J-humor for my tastes

Comment by: Morreale (Jun 08, 2009 02:05)

I've never heard of most of these games... I'm gonna have to try them :)

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jun 08, 2009 02:06)

DXR88

I am use to it I watch to much anime :P...I do wish it was out on PC...did they ever drag it to PC?

Comment by: inagasake (Jun 08, 2009 03:17)

Originally posted by DXR88:

---

thats why RPGers frown on bad story lines, who wants to buy a game to fall asleep. i find that RPG's that contain humor,suspense,and plot twists are more likely to get my vote. Lost Odyssey however had a bit to much J-humor for my tastes

---

The thing with Lost Odyssey is that the Thousand Years of Dreams was great and the characters were pretty good but the plot tying everything together was bland and the villain wasn't interesting at all and one-dimensional. I had a feeling the story would be great at first but throughout the four discs, the slow uninspired plot wears on you over time. If you are going to make a slow-paced game, devs have to put in more work to keep your attention. Also I find that I have less tolerance for monotony and slow-pacing in games than I did when I was say 14/15 and expect more from a story when a story-driven game insists on being slow-paced. I enjoyed and played through all of Tsukihime (PC point-and-click graphical adventure/visual novel), which requires a huge amount of reading, so I do have the patience to read through a long story in games but it's gotta be good if a game is going to place a lot of focus on the plot.

Comment by: DXR88 (Jun 08, 2009 04:21)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by DXR88:

---

thats why RPGers frown on bad story lines, who wants to buy a game to fall asleep. i find that RPG's that contain humor,suspense,and plot twists are more likely to get my vote. Lost Odyssey however had a bit to much J-humor for my tastes

---

The thing with Lost Odyssey is that the Thousand Years of Dreams was great and the characters were pretty good but the plot tying everything together was bland and the villain wasn't interesting at all and one-dimensional. I had a feeling the story would be great at first but throughout the four discs, the slow uninspired plot wears on you over time. If you are going to make a slow-paced game, devs have to put in more work to keep your attention. Also I find that I have less tolerance for monotony and slow-pacing in games than I did when I was say 14/15 and expect more from a story when a story-driven game insists on being slow-paced. I enjoyed and played through all of Tsukihime (PC point-and-click graphical adventure/visual novel), which requires a huge amount of reading, so I do have the patience to read through a long story in games but it's gotta be good if a game is going to place a lot of focus on the plot.

---

to sum it up for you it lost sight of the main story, which sadly happens to many an rpg these days. Tales of Vesperia wasn't that bad, story wise however it does lack the old school tales feel.