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Sony explains decision to cut Linux option in PS3 Slim

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Dela @ Sep 02, 2009 02:30 | 43 comments

While the PS3 Slim announcement was generally welcomed by most gamers last week, some weren't very happy about the lack of backwards compatibility, and the dropping of the "OtherOS" option which made it possible to install Linux on the PS3. On the first issue, Sony said that the console's ability to play PlayStation 2 (PS2) games was not a major driver of console sales and so was dropped for cost reasons, but it stayed silent for a while about the OtherOS decision.

This led to some theories of why Sony would want to kill the OtherOS option, which is cited often as a reason why many hackers haven't tried to break the system's security like they have with Xbox 360 and older consoles. One interesting theory said that Sony wasn't pleased by the use of multiple PS3s by research labs and companies to build "Cell clusters" that are relatively inexpensive.

Sony makes a loss on the sale of each PS3 console, but earns a lot of revenue from the sales of games released for the platform. The use of dozens of PS3 consoles in research labs for raw computing power or a similar task, would be seen as hurting Sony since no games are bought for any of those consoles. In the past this reality has even caused some speculation that a Sony update would kill, or limit, the OtherOS feature on older consoles.

However, SCE has committed to continue to support the OtherOS feature on older models. A sony rep gave the reason for the lack of OtherOS support in the new PS3 Slim on a Sony developer website...

"The reasons are simple: The PS3 Slim is a major cost reduction involving many changes to hardware components in the PS3 design. In order to offer the OtherOS install, SCE would need to continue to maintain the OtherOS hypervisor drivers for any significant hardware changes - this costs SCE. One of our key objectives with the new model is to pass on cost savings to the consumer with a lower retail price. Unfortunately in this case the cost of OtherOS install did not fit with the wider objective to offer a lower cost PS3."

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Comment by: Hunt720 (Sep 02, 2009 16:50)

thats ok. were still on for beers and console bashing for friday though right? ;-P

Comment by: Oner (Sep 02, 2009 17:55)

Originally posted by Hunt720:

Quote:
Originally posted by Hunt720:
I think linux on PS3 is really intended for a small % of people anyhow. I think its great that Sony supported the idea for the older models, but I think the slim is competing for sales this holiday and that demographic isn't as interested in linux.

as for BC... I too have a 60gig and I think my PS2 games run just fine as long as I keep the aspect ratio 4:3. But I do have a theory for the lack of BC support..

We know that they (sony) has patented a method to run PS2 software on the PS3 using software emulation. I think this will be implemented in a firmware update, but I think it will happen in correlation with the availability of PS2 downloadable titles from the PSN. That way, Sony can say they have a way to play PS2 games.. but you have to buy them. So in a business sense its a "win win" in Sony's eyes.. even though most people who are interested in BC want it to be disk based. The reason I think they will use this method to deploy their BC firmware update, is because of the public outcry for more PS1 titles on the PSN.. and this is despite the fact that ALL PS3s play PS1 games on disk.

Just my theory.. just throwing it out there.. just seems pointless to develop a software emulation for PS2 data and not implement it.

Not really, it can still be implemented in selling you PS2 games through the PSN store.
yes... my point exactly

Or how about even porting (not emulating) PS2 games like Marvel vs Capcom 2 or the new God of War Collection set coming up to be released in 720p HD on a Blu-ray disc for $30/$40 bucks...

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
And due to the nature of the hardware you can not easily optimize software for it. Thus halveing its real world potential almost twice.....

edit
The PS3 looks great on paper but is no where near its theoretical maximums. At least for now in 2 or 4 years it might well be that much more special than what the 360 is but for now there is no real difference other than LIVE subscription fee.

I don't know Zippy. This gen Sony has been more than forthcoming on giving/sharing/offering devs support, help, tools & such from within & for all not just first party's either...

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Comment by: glassd (Sep 02, 2009 18:03)

I dont even know what Lenux is. What type of enjoyment can an "above average guy" like me get out of it? Serious!

Comment by: Oner (Sep 02, 2009 18:19)

Originally posted by glassd:
I dont even know what Linux (*edit) is. What type of enjoyment can an "above average guy" like me get out of it? Serious!

If you like to play old school emulators like NES, SNES, Genesis, TG16, N64 etc. and use other applications like VideoLan, Firefox or any number of other useful stuff then it can matter quite a lot in terms of functionality/options...

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Comment by: glassd (Sep 02, 2009 18:24)

Ok. I have a ton of Sega Genesis Games out in the shop. Will have a hard time inserting them into my 60gig PS3.
I understand, thanks.

Comment by: xnonsuchx (Sep 02, 2009 18:29)

Originally posted by glassd:
I dont even know what Lenux is. What type of enjoyment can an "above average guy" like me get out of it? Serious!

For 95-99% of end users, it's no big deal. For the ultra-geeky few, it's something to experiment with (it's hard to imagine any PS3 user doesn't already have a PC/Mac for their primary computer use). The limited memory and lack of graphics acceleration (the RSX GPU isn't accessible in 'Other OS' mode) turns it into a fairly basic computer unless you have apps designed to use the 6 available Cell SPUs. The biggest issue is that Sony essentially put out of business a few companies that were selling PS3 Linux clusters...unless they can continue by sourcing used/refurbed older PS3s.

Comment by: Oner (Sep 02, 2009 19:11)

Originally posted by glassd:
Ok. I have a ton of Sega Genesis Games out in the shop. Will have a hard time inserting them into my 60gig PS3.
I understand, thanks.

You got a chuckle out of me on that one! Touché

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Comment by: BTFan (Sep 02, 2009 19:29)

The only thing that annoys me in these News discussions about PS3s and Xboxs is how Oner can pretty much tell anyone anything he wants in any attitude or language while someone else can't or else it's considered a fanboy comment. IMO, Oner is a huge fanboy. He doensn't repect his own rules for 'why to ban someone'.

I'll probably get banned to voice my opinion but I just really wanted to say this.

Comment by: Oner (Sep 02, 2009 19:42)

Originally posted by BTFan:
The only thing that annoys me in these News discussions about PS3s and Xboxs is how Oner can pretty much tell anyone anything he wants in any attitude or language while someone else can't or else it's considered a fanboy comment. IMO, Oner is a huge fanboy. He doensn't repect his own rules for 'why to ban someone'.

I'll probably get banned to voice my opinion but I just really wanted to say this.

Really. Then why haven't I banned InterestX (to use as an example) then? Where have I used inappropriate language? Because I sure don't see it...maybe because it's not there is why? Just because someone is misinformed does not mean I will ban them or because I can get into a debate with someone does not mean anyone has done anything wrong.

You on the other hand for blatantly calling me out like that publicly with no proof is a ban-able offense..should I ban you? Or are you trying the a Catch 22 argument? Either way your post is out of line and needs to be taken to PM's if you still have issue from this point out.

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Comment by: jookycola (Sep 02, 2009 19:57)

Why? Oner just states facts. And also provides sources and links to proof. and what information he provides without sources is usually common knowledge that anyone can find in a simple google search.

It's the fanboys that try to debunk facts with B.S. and opinions that get mad at him. I own both a 360 and a PS3 and i see nothing wrong with what Oner says. It's only the truth, and i think that pisses off fanboys more than anything because they can't handle that the only good thing 360 had over the PS3 was price. With that problem out of the way now it's a whole new ballgame.

When you provide facts, and back it up, your just stating truth.
A Fanboy is someone who is way to attached to something and aggressively defends their opinions often to the point where it is considered an obsession. Fanboys remain loyal to their particular obsession, disregarding any factors (often including logic, or hard facts) that differ from their point of view.

Comment by: glassd (Sep 02, 2009 20:06)

I think Jack Nicolson has a statement for those that don’t like Oner.

Comment by: Oner (Sep 02, 2009 20:12)

Originally posted by jookycola:
Why? Oner just states facts. And also provides sources and links to proof. and what information he provides without sources is usually common knowledge that anyone can find in a simple google search.

It's the fanboys that try to debunk facts with B.S. and opinions that get mad at him. I own both a 360 and a PS3 and i see nothing wrong with what Oner says. It's only the truth, and i think that pisses off fanboys more than anything because they can't handle that the only good thing 360 had over the PS3 was price. With that problem out of the way now it's a whole new ballgame.

When you provide facts, and back it up, your just stating truth.
A Fanboy is someone who is way to attached to something and aggressively defends their opinions often to the point where it is considered an obsession. Fanboys remain loyal to their particular obsession, disregarding any factors (often including logic, or hard facts) that differ from their point of view.

Originally posted by glassd:
I think Jack Nicolson has a statement for those that don’t like Oner.

Thanks Guys. I really needed that too, because it does get daunting at times and I second guess if what I am saying is wrong or something...I know I can be harsh in my tone but I'm a born a raised New Yorker ~ I can't help it!

But jooky got it right. As a Mod (especially being brought in specifically for the console sections) I have to know my stuff and back what I say up to provide aD'ers with proper factual information...that's what we're here for, aren't we?

LoL @ glassd!

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Comment by: glassd (Sep 02, 2009 20:20)

It is nice to have you around. The small amount of bickering that goes on here is nothing compared to other sites due to you and other mod’s keeping a lid on things. When Facts are provided (from which ever side) it tends to keep “Opinions” in check.

Comment by: pphoenix (Sep 02, 2009 21:43)

Originally posted by glassd:
It is nice to have you around. The small amount of bickering that goes on here is nothing compared to other sites due to you and other mod’s keeping a lid on things. When Facts are provided (from which ever side) it tends to keep “Opinions” in check.

is it ok for certain members to be completely off topic at afterdawn then Oner?

Comment by: Oner (Sep 02, 2009 22:10)

Originally posted by pphoenix:

Originally posted by glassd:
It is nice to have you around. The small amount of bickering that goes on here is nothing compared to other sites due to you and other mod’s keeping a lid on things. When Facts are provided (from which ever side) it tends to keep “Opinions” in check.
is it ok for certain members to be completely off topic at afterdawn then Oner?

That seems soooooo like a loaded question that I shouldn't even try to answer it because there isn't a "right" or "wrong" answer that will please everyone. BUT I will say this (and this goes for ALL members) ~ If it is within the realm of discussion (even being off topic) then sometimes yes. Especially when you talk about consoles. It is bound to happen that other similar topics will come up that involves some lee way to explain X, Y or Z. The tricky thing is having to really look closely at who-said-what-and-when to see where the off topic began. Sometimes it is pertinent to the conversation (even though not being tied to the thread title), while other times it is not, BUT isn't something that is "bad" to the overall standing of the thread.

I.E. A thread discussing Sales of an Xbox 360 but someone brings up the loudness of the PS3's Fan or something to do with Blu-Ray would be off topic...BUT to compare sales of the Wii to the 360 or PS3 deserves some lee way, as it's topical and informational.

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Comment by: canuckerz (Sep 02, 2009 23:25)

Heres a question, the ps3 linux clusters they were selling to the universities and such, were their capabilities limited under linux like ours were? That wouldn't make sense, and if it wasn't restricted whats the differences between the consoles hardware/software. Like say if one got a hold of the specific firmware could one unlock all of the power under linux?

Comment by: shaffaaf (Sep 02, 2009 23:41)

im sure LOTS of people ddint know linux was an option on the PS3 till it got taken away LOL.

if anything we should praise sony for bringing in backwards compatiilty.

i was so pissed when i couldnt play my nes games on my snes, but in the end i had to jsut use 2 consoles, but the snes had much better games and the nes giot shelved.

PS1 games can be played on ANY PS3, its just PS2 games, but if you still have those then you still have a PS2.

what they shoudl do is allow you to buy them off the PSN for people that want them, i.e the killzone 2 fiasco. i played it, i made a few friends play it, but the OG killzone 1, hardly anyone played. for somereason, that and black, no one liked.

now KZ2 comes out on PS3 and lots of people wanna complete the OG version and not be left behind. im sure lots of PS3 onwners that wanted to might not have a had a PS2, so i doubt they would buy the PS2 jsut for KZ1.

thats why i likes what GoW are doing, bringin 1 n 2 to the PS3 before releasing number 3. i can say i priated the first 2, but they were amazing, and this time i will buy them.

no one realises what they miss till its gone. the UMD was the bane of PSP users at one poitn, people saying its too much to lug around 10 umds, theyr shoudl ahve dldable games. people pirate the psp and use one MS with all the games. THEN comes the PSP go and everyones like, ZOMG TEH UMD!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!!!!!1!1!1!
even though they hated it the day before.

some people just love to bitch and moan. others just get on with life.

Comment by: xnonsuchx (Sep 03, 2009 00:30)

Originally posted by canuckerz:
Heres a question, the ps3 linux clusters they were selling to the universities and such, were their capabilities limited under linux like ours were? That wouldn't make sense, and if it wasn't restricted whats the differences between the consoles hardware/software. Like say if one got a hold of the specific firmware could one unlock all of the power under linux?

Same capabilities...they were only useful as long as they had distributed Cell-optimized apps to run (usually, just pure number-crunching programs like Folding@home which don't need graphics acceleration/lotsa RAM/etc.). That's what most server clusters are used for.

Comment by: PantherM (Sep 03, 2009 01:22)

The extra OS and BC are overrated. I have two PS3's....one is an original 60GB, the other is a 40GB model. I use them the exact same way. No Linux, no PS2 games.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 03, 2009 01:44)

Originally posted by Oner:

Originally posted by Hunt720:

Quote:
Originally posted by Hunt720:
I think linux on PS3 is really intended for a small % of people anyhow. I think its great that Sony supported the idea for the older models, but I think the slim is competing for sales this holiday and that demographic isn't as interested in linux.

as for BC... I too have a 60gig and I think my PS2 games run just fine as long as I keep the aspect ratio 4:3. But I do have a theory for the lack of BC support..

We know that they (sony) has patented a method to run PS2 software on the PS3 using software emulation. I think this will be implemented in a firmware update, but I think it will happen in correlation with the availability of PS2 downloadable titles from the PSN. That way, Sony can say they have a way to play PS2 games.. but you have to buy them. So in a business sense its a "win win" in Sony's eyes.. even though most people who are interested in BC want it to be disk based. The reason I think they will use this method to deploy their BC firmware update, is because of the public outcry for more PS1 titles on the PSN.. and this is despite the fact that ALL PS3s play PS1 games on disk.

Just my theory.. just throwing it out there.. just seems pointless to develop a software emulation for PS2 data and not implement it.

Not really, it can still be implemented in selling you PS2 games through the PSN store.
yes... my point exactly
Or how about even porting (not emulating) PS2 games like Marvel vs Capcom 2 or the new God of War Collection set coming up to be released in 720p HD on a Blu-ray disc for $30/$40 bucks...

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
And due to the nature of the hardware you can not easily optimize software for it. Thus halveing its real world potential almost twice.....

edit
The PS3 looks great on paper but is no where near its theoretical maximums. At least for now in 2 or 4 years it might well be that much more special than what the 360 is but for now there is no real difference other than LIVE subscription fee.
I don't know Zippy. This gen Sony has been more than forthcoming on giving/sharing/offering devs support, help, tools & such from within & for all not just first party's either...

No doubt sony has HAD to to be more open with devs. But I am looking at the end of the day final real world function of the PS3 and frankly its not beyond what the 360 can do even if on paper its 3 or 5 times faster.

Now if they used a more normal CPU archetype with fully integrated sound and video system on the mobo so it runs smoothy can share resources if need be and has a large 1GB or so of ramm(basically something like the360 only 3 times faster) we could see a clear difference in games as many more devs would be able to optimize and sue what they know rather than relaying on sony or their dev staff to relearn what a wheel is. From what I see its going to take up half of the PS3s 10 year life span to catch the software up with the hardware and that's just plain silly(even more so if the shine is the primary draw of it) even if the normal span is 2-3 years for devs to really start to make stuff shine on a new system.

Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy!
Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".
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Comment by: ediende (Sep 03, 2009 08:55)

Why? Oner just states facts

Comment by: kyo28 (Sep 03, 2009 09:16)

Originally posted by PantherM:
The extra OS and BC are overrated. I have two PS3's....one is an original 60GB, the other is a 40GB model. I use them the exact same way. No Linux, no PS2 games.

I have to agree there. I have launch 60GB Japanese PS3 and never used Linux on it and only used the BC the first year or so.

Comment by: emugamer (Sep 03, 2009 16:41)

There are still millions of phat PS3's out there. Now would be a good time to go slim. Research labs can still get their hands on whatever is left, and after that, there will be plenty of used ones for years to come.

@zippy
in 5 years when the software catches up to the hardware, I will throw down cash for a new next-gen Nintendo console. Will they deliver??

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 03, 2009 19:03)

Originally posted by emugamer:
There are still millions of phat PS3's out there. Now would be a good time to go slim. Research labs can still get their hands on whatever is left, and after that, there will be plenty of used ones for years to come.

@zippy
in 5 years when the software catches up to the hardware, I will throw down cash for a new next-gen Nintendo console. Will they deliver??

The WII was built to be fully usable from the start sadly its not going to get much better due to the limits of the control mechanisms they use. But the PS3 might be alot better in 5 years :P

Comment by: IguanaC64 (Sep 03, 2009 19:04)

Yet another reason not to buy a PS3 slim for me. I enjoy using my gaming consoles for utility once they're past their gaming usefulness. People are still using Sega Dreamcasts, XBox's, and PS2's for all sorts of stuff. Retrogaming...FTP server...web server...etc.

Sony just wants to strangle the life out of it so that it does nothing that Sony, Inc doesn't want it to...even after they've quit caring about it.