News

Comment by: Oner (Sep 02, 2009 00:43)

Weird how you couldn't provide it earlier when asked, then only to post something that came out today or so? Odd isn't it? But whatever...SquareTrade is not Microsoft and is an outside party not privy to EXACT numbers, whereas (as I have stated before) Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected. Less affected *YES* but still a major issue.

I prefer to go by the horses mouth. Microsoft. Not an external party. Take that as you please.

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Comment by: homesick (Sep 02, 2009 01:39)

this is news? i don't know where you guys have been but over at the real deal 360 forums we have known about this for well over a month. great flame war though, too bad the numbers dont lie ps3 fanboys. apparantly the console owners know what they want, and they want the 360. and dont blame it on the recession, i am in the retail industry and everything is blamed on the recession.

Comment by: Interestx (Sep 02, 2009 01:41)

Originally posted by Oner:

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Weird how you couldn't provide it earlier when asked, then only to post something that came out today or so? Odd isn't it?

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Not in the slightest.

There was no such independant and up-to-date data until this report here came out today.

It's as simple as that.

Originally posted by Oner:

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But whatever...SquareTrade is not Microsoft and is an outside party not privy to EXACT numbers

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Maybe so, but they are an independant 3rd party warranty company and their numbers can be seen as free from spin or bias.

Originally posted by Oner:

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whereas (as I have stated before) Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales

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Dated July 2007.
Over 2 years out-of-date.

That's not much use for telling us how things are today following the 2 major hardware revisions.

Originally posted by Oner:

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and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected. Less affected *YES* but still a major issue.

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That's purely your own spin & invention on this.

Nothing in the report dated July 2007 said anything about how future hardware revisions (one of which was over 1 year away) was "affected" at all.

Originally posted by Oner:

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I prefer to go by the horses mouth. Microsoft. Not an external party. Take that as you please.

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S'funny some want it both ways.
It's not unusual to find plenty who wouldn't trust or believe a word Microsoft have to say about anything.

That failrate is interesting though.
Jasper Xbox has a failrate 1/10th that of PS3.
PS3 fails run at 1 in 10?
Intersting.

Comment by: Interestx (Sep 02, 2009 01:45)

One last thing.

Like any form of insurance a 3rd party warranty company only cares about one thing: rates of liability/risk & for that they need accuracy.

Without it, they stand to lose their shirts to over the insurance they offer people, or be sued heavily for under insuring people.

Comment by: HDNow (Sep 02, 2009 01:59)

Originally posted by Oner:

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I prefer to go by the horses mouth. Microsoft. Not an external party. Take that as you please.

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How does Microsoft respond to the reported 54.2 percent failure rate?

They didn't dispute the data!

Comment by: Interestx (Sep 02, 2009 02:05)

Originally posted by HDNow:

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How does Microsoft respond to the reported 54.2 percent failure rate?

They didn't dispute the data

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Why would they, specifically?

That "data" was garbage.
No serious statistician would considerit anything beyond the most weak of anecdotal 'evidence'.
Self-selected & completely unverified.
It's about as substantive as a phone-in.

(and suspiciously timed around the PS3 slim release too)

It stands no comparison with the SquareTrade data.

That is serious industry data.
It is independent and verifiable, being based on the claims they see verses the number of policies taken out over a given period.

Comment by: HDNow (Sep 02, 2009 02:11)

Originally posted by Interestx:

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That "data" was garbage.

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Why didn't MS say so?

Their silence was deafening.

Comment by: chris4160 (Sep 02, 2009 02:12)

Originally posted by Oner:

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Weird how you couldn't provide it earlier when asked, then only to post something that came out today or so? Odd isn't it? But whatever...SquareTrade is not Microsoft and is an outside party not privy to EXACT numbers, whereas (as I have stated before) Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected. Less affected *YES* but still a major issue.

I prefer to go by the horses mouth. Microsoft. Not an external party. Take that as you please.

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What ms was referring to was the x clamps, which aren't the main reason for rrod (if you new anything about the xbox 360, the topic at hand, you would know that). So that does not mean 11 million units have rrod, it means 11 million units could possibly be faulty... but any electrical item can be faulty, nothing new. The x clamps aren't even in the new xbox's, so again you are bringing up old news.

Comment by: homesick (Sep 02, 2009 02:12)

Originally posted by HDNow:

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Originally posted by Interestx:

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That "data" was garbage.

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Why didn't MS say so?

Their silence was deafening.

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because thats how ms rolls. they dont have to prove anything.

Comment by: HDNow (Sep 02, 2009 02:35)

Originally posted by homesick:

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because thats how ms rolls. they dont have to prove anything.

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At least they owned up to the E74 Error - which I recently suffered on my 3rd 360 2 months after I got it back from having the RROD fixed. So back it went to MS.

Comment by: homesick (Sep 02, 2009 02:39)

as far as i know they have owned up to all of their mistakes. and can still afford to fix all xbox's and still outprice sony. bravo bill gates, bravo... :)

Comment by: HDNow (Sep 02, 2009 02:52)

Originally posted by homesick:

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as far as i know they have owned up to all of their mistakes

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"MISTAKES" - absolutely the correct word to use in this case.

Comment by: chris4160 (Sep 02, 2009 03:00)

Originally posted by homesick:

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as far as i know they have owned up to all of their mistakes. and can still afford to fix all xbox's and still outprice sony. bravo bill gates, bravo... :)

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And still be beating ps3 in sales.

Comment by: Oner (Sep 02, 2009 12:54)

Originally posted by Interestx:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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Weird how you couldn't provide it earlier when asked, then only to post something that came out today or so? Odd isn't it?

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Not in the slightest.

There was no such independant and up-to-date data until this report here came out today.

It's as simple as that.

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But yet (once again) you said you could provide your "data/sources" earlier but somehow you couldn't/didn't...that's what's odd. It seems like this "report" came out and just so happened to support what you said (with no prior proof) and now you are using it to fit your claim of which you couldn't prove earlier. But again, whatever. It's semantics but by luck not by your own researched proof.

Originally posted by Interestx:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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whereas (as I have stated before) Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales

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Dated July 2007.
Over 2 years out-of-date.

That's not much use for telling us how things are today following the 2 major hardware revisions.

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So let me get this straight. You are actually saying because Microsoft THEMSELVES admit that 11 million 360's are DEFECTIVE that it's not valid because it is "2 years old"?!?!

Wow. Um, Yeah...OK. It can't get much clearer than that. Yes it does not mean all 11 million have RROD (I have NEVER said that) but that that 11 million by itself are prone to failure because they are DEFECTIVE.

Originally posted by Interestx:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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But whatever...SquareTrade is not Microsoft and is an outside party not privy to EXACT numbers

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Maybe so, but they are an independant 3rd party warranty company and their numbers can be seen as free from spin or bias.

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But yet you won't accept MS's OWN admission as proof...quite odd. Is the room spinning or is it just me?

Originally posted by Interestx:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected. Less affected *YES* but still a major issue.

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That's purely your own spin & invention on this.

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Really? So all those Youtube videos & Gaming and/or review sites like Joystiq, IGN, Kotaku etc. showing/having RROD's & E74's (just because it's a new name doesn't mean it's a different problem) on the Xenon, Zephyr, Falcon, Opus, Jasper & Valhalla revisions are just imaginary fallacies right?

Honestly, this is getting ludicrous. It's not even worth having to waste my time to link to sources, proof & documentation anymore because certain types of people STILL won't see it no matter what is shown.

The absolute fact is 360's STILL fail because of the same issue. Hence the problem is not fixed. YES IT IS LOWER (as I have ALWAYS said) but that doesn't mean it's not of concern or that it doesn't happen.

Originally posted by chris4160:

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Originally posted by homesick:

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as far as i know they have owned up to all of their mistakes. and can still afford to fix all xbox's and still outprice sony. bravo bill gates, bravo... :)

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And still be beating ps3 in sales.

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Ugh....I thought we went through this already ~ http://www.smgamers.com/?p=948 they really aren't.

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Comment by: glassd (Sep 02, 2009 14:05)

Since you are excluding all models except the Jasper to get your 1%, Then surely you would exclude all PS3 models except the Slim to get the PS3 Failure rate which is probably 0% at the moment.

If I don’t count the first two Atomic Bombs that we dropped on Japan, then the USA really didn’t drop any Atomic Bombs on Japan. If we are going to count Apples, lets count them all.

Comment by: glassd (Sep 02, 2009 17:47)

I read squaretrade's report. Did some of us not read the part where squaretrade survayed 360 owners and 360 owners tend to send their 360 into MS instead of squaretrad to be repaired (because of the 3 year warranty) and they still figure the 360 overall failure rate to be around %35.

Comment by: Oner (Sep 02, 2009 18:05)

Originally posted by glassd:

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I read squaretrade's report. Did some of us not read the part where squaretrade survayed 360 owners and 360 owners tend to send their 360 into MS instead of squaretrad to be repaired (because of the 3 year warranty) and they still figure the 360 overall failure rate to be around %35.

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Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner! Someone get this man a prize since he gets it! (Not meant to sound as if condescending)

From the "report"

Quote:

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First, it’s worthwhile considering that Xbox 360’s failure rate drops to 11.7% when you exclude RROD, which then puts it on par with the PS3.

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And furthermore

Quote:

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Second, Microsoft’s policy may result in an underreporting of failures by Xbox 360 owners to SquareTrade, relative to the other two consoles.

***Because the RROD problem is so widely known to be covered by Microsoft’s warranty, we believe that more customers bypass SquareTrade and reported failures directly to the Microsoft.***

In a survey of SquareTrade customers with Xbox 360s conducted by email, SquareTrade found that over half of our customers who experienced a RROD error reported their problem directly to Microsoft without contacting SquareTrade. Email survey respondents tend to be a self-selecting group, so the data should be used directionally rather than definitively, particularly because we did not survey PS3 and Wii owners with the same question. With that caveat in mind, applying the survey data to the analysis shows that the Xbox 360 failure rate could be as high as 35%.

While Microsoft initially claimed in February 2007i that the “return” rate on Xbox 360s did not exceed 3-5%, they later published an open apology on July 5th, 2007 and announced a $1.15 billion fund to be set aside for Xbox 360 repair and replacement.ii The money would fund repairs for up to 2.5 million consoles, and thus they implicitly anticipated a far higher rate of failure than their stated 3-5%.

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Comment by: glassd (Sep 02, 2009 18:13)

Originally posted by Oner:

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Originally posted by glassd:

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I read squaretrade's report. Did some of us not read the part where squaretrade survayed 360 owners and 360 owners tend to send their 360 into MS instead of squaretrad to be repaired (because of the 3 year warranty) and they still figure the 360 overall failure rate to be around %35.

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Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner! Someone get this man a prize since he gets it! (Not meant to sound as if condescending)

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Thats twice now that i have been the winner. If someone wants to read the whole squaretrade article, they will have to open square's PDF report. It has some nice charts and stuff in it.

Comment by: Oner (Sep 02, 2009 18:14)

Originally posted by glassd:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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Originally posted by glassd:

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I read squaretrade's report. Did some of us not read the part where squaretrade survayed 360 owners and 360 owners tend to send their 360 into MS instead of squaretrad to be repaired (because of the 3 year warranty) and they still figure the 360 overall failure rate to be around %35.

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Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner! Someone get this man a prize since he gets it! (Not meant to sound as if condescending)

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Thats twice now that i have been the winner. If someone wants to read the whole squaretrade article, they will have to open square's PDF report. It has some nice charts and stuff in it.

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Fixed. Re-did my post to avoid inaccuracies in how people take what they want and the whole picture/proper information is not shown properly.

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Comment by: chris4160 (Sep 02, 2009 23:08)

Originally posted by chris4160:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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Weird how you couldn't provide it earlier when asked, then only to post something that came out today or so? Odd isn't it? But whatever...SquareTrade is not Microsoft and is an outside party not privy to EXACT numbers, whereas (as I have stated before) Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected. Less affected *YES* but still a major issue.

I prefer to go by the horses mouth. Microsoft. Not an external party. Take that as you please.

---

What ms was referring to was the x clamps, which aren't the main reason for rrod (if you new anything about the xbox 360, the topic at hand, you would know that). So that does not mean 11 million units have rrod, it means 11 million units could possibly be faulty... but any electrical item can be faulty, nothing new. The x clamps aren't even in the new xbox's, so again you are bringing up old news.

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I prove Oner's point wrong, he disregards it, doesn't post a reply to it (but he does post a reply to the post that he can "prove wrong") then uses that very information that I proved wrong again... in the same thread. This is the third time I have had to correct your "proof" yet you are still using it. And to make matters worse you are claiming that other members are to lazy to find proof. Far out.

In response to the squaretrade arguement: When that gamescom (or whatever it was) 54.2% rrod fail rate survey came out a few weeks ago all the ps3 fanboys were backing it. Now a survey that from a reliable company comes out you disregard it...

In response to Oner's response to the ps3 sale rates: It's not MS fault sony was too late to release the ps3. Even if sony did release the ps3 at the same time as the xbox it would have been a $500 xbox vs a $900 ps3, with basically the same aspects, I know which one I would buy. Just changing the release date and saying the ps3 has more sales is rubbish, there is way to many variables to change the outcome

Comment by: Oner (Sep 03, 2009 00:10)

Originally posted by chris4160:

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I prove Oner's point wrong, he disregards it, doesn't post a reply to it (but he does post a reply to the post that he can "prove wrong") then uses that very information that I proved wrong again... in the same thread. This is the third time I have had to correct your "proof" yet you are still using it. And to make matters worse you are claiming that other members are to lazy to find proof. Far out.

In response to the squaretrade arguement: When that gamescom (or whatever it was) 54.2% rrod fail rate survey came out a few weeks ago all the ps3 fanboys were backing it. Now a survey that from a reliable company comes out you disregard it...

In response to Oner's response to the ps3 sale rates: It's not MS fault sony was too late to release the ps3. Even if sony did release the ps3 at the same time as the xbox it would have been a $500 xbox vs a $900 ps3, with basically the same aspects, I know which one I would buy. Just changing the release date and saying the ps3 has more sales is rubbish, there is way to many variables to change the outcome

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Um probably because it doesn't matter. You didn't prove ANYTHING or ANYONE wrong. Xclamp, Solder, MB Flex, Lack of cooling etc...It is STILL an admission of 11 MILLION 360's BEING DEFECTIVE. That is the bottom line and the point I have always said, nothing else. What more is there to say? That is what you don't seem to get. I gave you a direct link to the proof the other day. You don't want to accept it. Not my fault.

I am repeating the same thing over and over and over and over...I never said all those 360's are RROD failures (another thing I have said before and actually said right here in this thread!) just that they are DEFECTIVE by admission from Microsoft. YOU just don't want to understand that and continue to try and prove something I NEVER SAID nor believe. I don't even believe the 54.2% figure because that was just a poll from the readers of THAT website. NOT from MS themselves, just like I don't believe the 1% figure from SquareTrade. BUT even SquareTrade says they believe the failure rate could be as high as 35%.

The problem is you are trying to prove me wrong about something I never said nor believe. THAT is where you are getting frustrated with and can't seem to let go.

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Comment by: chris4160 (Sep 03, 2009 00:35)

Originally posted by Oner:

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Weird how you couldn't provide it earlier when asked, then only to post something that came out today or so? Odd isn't it? But whatever...SquareTrade is not Microsoft and is an outside party not privy to EXACT numbers, whereas (as I have stated before) Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected. Less affected *YES* but still a major issue.

I prefer to go by the horses mouth. Microsoft. Not an external party. Take that as you please.

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You posted that in response to the squaretrade rrod survey, now tell me that was not implying 11 miilion units rrod. And if it wasn't there was no use in posting that 2 year old info. Basically what you admitted in your above post is that your ONLY PROOF has very little link to rrod.

Who cares if 11 million units are possibly defective, it does not mean 11 million units have rrod like you implied. You "prefer to go by the horses mouth" although the horse has never released a failure rate, you implied they did.

Atleast ms had the decency to own up for their mistakes.

Comment by: Oner (Sep 03, 2009 00:46)

Originally posted by chris4160:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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Weird how you couldn't provide it earlier when asked, then only to post something that came out today or so? Odd isn't it? But whatever...SquareTrade is not Microsoft and is an outside party not privy to EXACT numbers, whereas (as I have stated before) Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected. Less affected *YES* but still a major issue.

I prefer to go by the horses mouth. Microsoft. Not an external party. Take that as you please.

---

You posted that in response to the squaretrade rrod survey, now tell me that was not implying 11 miilion units rrod. And if it wasn't there was no use in posting that 2 year old info. Basically what you admitted in your above post is that your ONLY PROOF has very little link to rrod.

Who cares if 11 million units are possibly defective, it does not mean 11 million units have rrod like you implied. You "prefer to go by the horses mouth" although the horse has never released a failure rate, you implied they did.

Atleast ms had the decency to own up for their mistakes.

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OMG. What is so hard to understand? Here I go explaining again what is clear as day previously.....I said "Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected." no where does it say say those are 11 Million RROD's...just that at least 11 Million 360's sold in the first 19 months are defective/affected. What can't you comprehend?

Holy crap did I just restate what I just repeated twice in the same sentence and like 3 or 4 times already...seriously...READING COMPREHENSION FTL...


Edit: Actually this has gone WAAAY too far and has derailed the thread to nothing...if you want to keep this up please PM me. Sorry to all our members.

Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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What was decided, at least by myself and Dela, was that the console articles having comments disabled will be at the discretion of the writer of the article. Didn't think there would be too much drama in a speculation article about Xbox 360 pricing tbh. :P

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LoL...apparently not!

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Comment by: KillerBug (Sep 05, 2009 08:40)

In addition to the fact that very few people will report an error to an aftermarket repair company while the unit is still under warantee, there is another thing to remembmer about their numbers...

All of their other data was a 2-year scale...that is, the percent that failed over the course of 24 months. The data for the new xbox360 was based on a unit that has been available less than 10 months, and many of the owners have only owned their system for half of that or less. Granted, the new 360 is a lot more reliable than the orriginal...but it is still not very reliable.

Comment by: scorpNZ (Sep 05, 2009 19:14)

MS sold a console that they knew was having issues,even denied it if memory serves until the noise got too loud,even then it took em ages to provide a decent warranty,problem is there's a whole stack of 360's out there that are just crap,which are more than likely being sold on ebay etc,in the mean time you have those console sellers upgrading to the new consoles in the hope all will be well & since mine has had no issues from November 08 as well as others like me who waited for a price drop then the 360's lead is not a real testament to it's actual sales performance,the only way to know that for sure would've been if the 360 had a normal fail rate so with that scientifically proven explanation the 360's lead just got smaller