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Comment by: KillerBug (Jul 30, 2009 10:01)

I wonder how long it will take them to realize that no one wants to (not)grip a steering wheel made of air, then hold their arms out in front of them for hours on end. Most of the people who buy the wheel/pedal sets use them only a few times before they realize that it does not feel as realistic as using a conventional controler. This is with realistic materials and force feedback, yet microsoft thinks it would be more popular without the tactile or force sensations?

And it that were not bad enough, they use Natal an an excuse to not develop other products that people actualy want, and now they are pushing natal back a whole quarter when the release date was still over a year away!

Natal may one day evolve into something usefull...if some form of force-feedback hologram can be developed...think the holodeck from star-trek. Until then, it's just pissing upwards into the wind.

Comment by: MReprogle (Jul 30, 2009 14:22)

I can't disagree more. It isn't so much the driving games I care about. Just imagine doing a Tai Bo workout that actually corrects you when you are in the wrong stance! This is like having a personal trainer, and you don't have to stand on a stupid square like WiiFit.

Aside from that, I love the fact that it will have facial recognition, so right when you walk up to it, you get signed in. It will also have voice recognition.

Imagine the other applications it can do besides driving. Many games give you options to create your own player. Imagine being able to play Madden, and when it zooms into the linebacker, it has your actual face on it!

Besides game, you are going to be able to have video conferences on your xBox!

So, don't think of it as something that they are trying to replace the controller with.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 30, 2009 18:06)

Ya know before bringing out this monstrosity why not do a dash board update to let people remap their game pad and save it as a preset....so...I dunno...people can enjoy the games they have?.

Comment by: ThePastor (Jul 30, 2009 19:45)

I don't see how Natal will affect your conventional game playing at all. I'm sure the original controller will still function normally.
What this will do is drive sales. This will draw in people who are not gamers. This will enable a whole host of new types of applications that may or may not be games in the traditional sense.
No one thought the Wii was much of a big deal. Look at it now.
That is what this will do.
Maybe it won't be the best "driving" controller. But I gotta think that it would be way cool to pick up a stick and "point it around a corner" and watch your on-screen persona that has your face lean around a bunker and shoot your enemy.

Now, if it turns out to not work well then it'll be just another bust like all the other virtual controllers out there.

Personally, I'm surprised they are not building a new system for this.

Comment by: kikzm33z (Jul 30, 2009 19:45)

Originally posted by MReprogle:

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I can't disagree more. It isn't so much the driving games I care about. Just imagine doing a Tai Bo workout that actually corrects you when you are in the wrong stance! This is like having a personal trainer, and you don't have to stand on a stupid square like WiiFit.

Aside from that, I love the fact that it will have facial recognition, so right when you walk up to it, you get signed in. It will also have voice recognition.

Imagine the other applications it can do besides driving. Many games give you options to create your own player. Imagine being able to play Madden, and when it zooms into the linebacker, it has your actual face on it!

Besides game, you are going to be able to have video conferences on your xBox!

So, don't think of it as something that they are trying to replace the controller with.

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Not being a total fanboy, but you'd look like a retard if you were doing skateboard tricks on the living room floor. Same goes to the Wii Fit.

Facial recognition? Yeah, that's decent I guess.

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that Natal will only run arcade games and games that are specifically and purposely made for Natal. Did you see the games in the demonstration? They're all arcade games.

I thought that you could already have video chats on the 360. (works on the PS3.)

I agree that they're not replacing the controller. They are trying to experiment on something that is most likely to fail and be forgotten.
But.. It's far too early for my to criticize it.

EDIT: Oh yeah, just to add a little fanboy and irrelevant comment, the PS3's unreleased motion sensitive stuff will work in-game that supports it :)
Like the Dualshock 3, updates can be added into a game for motion sensitivity (God of War 3... Imagine it.)

Comment by: Gradical (Jul 31, 2009 05:32)

hahaha and you're not a fanboy huh?, bashing a full body motion detector but yet hyped by lifting your controler like back in the nes days people did but now on God of War.

Anyway, if you weren't so self centered, you would realize there is a world out there, and it's full of people without enough skills to play Forza, and you think that the number one priority of game developers is how real it feals?, HA!, that just proves how shortsighted you are, if i can have my whole family in a party playing human tetris, i bet we would all be having a blast.

Imagin this in your living room:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG0guVq_0uo

You have to realize, that the real market its not actually gamers.
Gamers, by nature, look ahead on buying games, they're allready considered as part of the market.

The people who don't play games because they are too real or too difficult, that is a promissing market, just ask the wii, which might not be the best console out there, but do you think microsoft would've liked to get a piece of that action?.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 31, 2009 06:08)

Originally posted by Gradical:

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hahaha and you're not a fanboy huh?, bashing a full body motion detector but yet hyped by lifting your controler like back in the nes days people did but now on God of War.

Anyway, if you weren't so self centered, you would realize there is a world out there, and it's full of people without enough skills to play Forza, and you think that the number one priority of game developers is how real it feals?, HA!, that just proves how shortsighted you are, if i can have my whole family in a party playing human tetris, i bet we would all be having a blast.

Imagin this in your living room:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG0guVq_0uo

You have to realize, that the real market its not actually gamers.
Gamers, by nature, look ahead on buying games, they're allready considered as part of the market.

The people who don't play games because they are too real or too difficult, that is a promissing market, just ask the wii, which might not be the best console out there, but do you think microsoft would've liked to get a piece of that action?.

---

The WII is not the best console out there for many reasons, one it only really makes money for nintendo, 2 many of its top sellers barely hit 1-2M in sales. Its true Zelda TWP hit 7M but that's nintendos halo for all intensive perporuses even halo 3 did 9M or in sales. You just have many more titles on the PS3/360 that have greater sales number, even the WIIs attach rate being 2 or 3 points below the 360 and 1 or 2 below the PS3 its clear the WII is making more money for the industry and specifically nintendo the trouble is that money is diluted its either concentrated around Nintendo or not very concentrated and that makes publishers not so willing to do a game on it.
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Force feed back is highly over rated. Give me precision and control over the control(IE control configuration options) before you start pulling new control methods out your ass.

As for natals features the motion capabilities are highly over exaggerated and so is the voice requcision, but I guess facial req+voice could work since it dose not have to be near perfect to pull it off.


Motion senseing is going to be as sloppy or more so than the wii and that's a shame...they constantly water down control options and interfacing to bring in the horde...why not build it for gamers first then focus on the horde...at least by then there will be little control issues for the few games that had any effort put into them...

Comment by: KillerBug (Jul 31, 2009 10:20)

"Gamers, by nature, look ahead on buying games, they're allready considered as part of the market"

I consider myself a gamer, but I have not bought a new PS3 game for over a year. Why? Because there is not one game I want that has been released in the past year. My PS3 collection is just two games (will be three when GT5 comes out).

"Just imagine doing a Tai Bo workout that actually corrects you when you are in the wrong stance"

I'm afraid I can't imagine myself doing Tai-Bo, even if it was free in a top-class facility. Taekwondo is similar, and I might consider that, except kicking air is no fun.

"you don't have to stand on a stupid square like WiiFit"

No, but you do have to stand in a certain area, and the sensors can be set to a large area (not very large, but big enough for a couch), or to read small details...but not both at once from what I have read.

"It will also have voice recognition"

I though Xbox360 already did this; windoze has been doing it for years without Natal.

"being able to play Madden, and when it zooms into the linebacker, it has your actual face on it!"

That might be cool (If I played madden), but isn't this already possible without the facial recognition camera...can't you make the players look however you want?

With proper accesories, it might be a usefull controler accesory (for example, guitar hero might be more fun if you occasionaly had to play the guitar behind your back or something). However, the only somewhat usefull thing I have found in the videos is the navigation through menus. If you are using your natal360 as a media center, then you can play content without a remote...kinda cool if you loose the remote a lot. Other than that, it seems rather useless.

Comment by: kikzm33z (Jul 31, 2009 14:28)

Originally posted by Gradical:

---

hahaha and you're not a fanboy huh?, bashing a full body motion detector but yet hyped by lifting your controler like back in the nes days people did but now on God of War.

Anyway, if you weren't so self centered, you would realize there is a world out there, and it's full of people without enough skills to play Forza, and you think that the number one priority of game developers is how real it feals?, HA!, that just proves how shortsighted you are, if i can have my whole family in a party playing human tetris, i bet we would all be having a blast.

Imagin this in your living room:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG0guVq_0uo

You have to realize, that the real market its not actually gamers.
Gamers, by nature, look ahead on buying games, they're allready considered as part of the market.

The people who don't play games because they are too real or too difficult, that is a promissing market, just ask the wii, which might not be the best console out there, but do you think microsoft would've liked to get a piece of that action?.

---

:| I only understood your first, short paragraph. Seriously. I don't understand what you're trying to say after. And no, I'm not a fanboy. If I was a fanboy, I'd be giving out absolutely biased and made-up comments.

Oh, I did understand the bit about Tetris. Oh God. You'd look like a right tard playing Tetris like that. No joke... Playing it on your own is ridiculous enough.
Imagine some stranger looking in through your window and your family were imitating Tetris blocks.
That's a fail to me.

Comment by: Gradical (Jul 31, 2009 14:40)

Quote:

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Imagine some stranger looking in through your window and your family were imitating Tetris blocks.
That's a fail to me.

---

You get a lot of strangers watching you play?, or do you just like to imagine you're being watched?.

If looking silly is a problem for you, you probably look silly already.

I really look forward to be a "Tard" (as you in your so advanced english lexicon put it), with my family and enjoy life, you should try it, don't worry you'll still be very cool and chicks won't think you're a fag.

Comment by: kikzm33z (Jul 31, 2009 20:22)

Quote:

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Quote:

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Imagine some stranger looking in through your window and your family were imitating Tetris blocks.
That's a fail to me.

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You get a lot of strangers watching you play?, or do you just like to imagine you're being watched?.

If looking silly is a problem for you, you probably look silly already.

I really look forward to be a "Tard" (as you in your so advanced english lexicon put it), with my family and enjoy life, you should try it, don't worry you'll still be very cool and chicks won't think you're a fag.

---

Indeed, I shall follow your advice.
You see, people do put mail through my mailbox and they will be able to look in my window when approaching my door. This applies to almost every single house I've seen. (besides Hong Kong which have flats)

It's OK, I'm not going to make an L shape in front of my TV with my family. You can give it a go.

I don't look silly. Well, maybe to some people, it comes down to personal opinion.

Also, looking like a tard in a slang way means you look like a faggot.
I guess that you take life in the most formal way you can.
I don't wish for an argument but I do predict another post from you, correct?

EDIT: To be on topic, Natal is a bad idea.
And before you flame me by calling me a fanboy, the Xbox 360 is a good console (I do sometimes flame it a bit for jokes with friends) but seriously.
The Wii is bad enough. Microsoft doesn't need to support this stupid idea of gaming.
And now that I think of it, the new motion sensitive things from Sony are rather stupid too. But fun if can be used in the likes of sword games and the possible FPS (Natal. Holding an imaginary gun in front of your TV pretending there's recoil? That would be hilarious to watch.)

Comment by: KillerBug (Aug 01, 2009 04:12)

Quote:

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Holding an imaginary gun in front of your TV pretending there's recoil? That would be hilarious to watch.)

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-I seem to remember a futurama episode something like this, but they used full body VR devices, so it was imersive 3D with force feedback...again we see the possible evolution of the technology being very cool, while the imediate future seems silly or even sad.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 01, 2009 04:35)

Quote:

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Quote:

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Holding an imaginary gun in front of your TV pretending there's recoil? That would be hilarious to watch.)

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Ah imagination something the old seem to have forgotten and think can be replaced with over priced shiny things(hides his 500$ transformer collection).

Anyway why not? And if you don't recoil the gun jams.

Its not such a bad setup, unlike the WII that's based around a specific control mechanism(wii mote) natal could well use a wifi/BT gun that plugs into the 360, the gun has force feedback,reload and optional setting stuff on it, even refine the setup a bit and add motion detection in it for more precision.

But ah there I go again wanting something so un casual....

Comment by: iiyama66 (Aug 02, 2009 20:25)

Natal has potential, however like others I just can't see it just yet. Whatever you think of Nintendo have always taken a different approach to others, they have reinvented the game controller, snes, n64, wii.
I found their response to Natal the most intersting, lets not forget Nintendo have been working on this years before the launch of the Wii and clearlyhave been working on a follow up, they are way ahead of Microsoft and Sony.
It's not just about the technology it's about how it works with the game, that for me is were Nintendo are way ahead, Nintendo didn't look to concerned when they were given a private viewing by Microsoft.
They even stated that they are 5 years ahead and although they liked natal they felt it was v limited in terms of use with games.
Natal is a great demo but it will have to do a lot more to convince me of it's practicality

Comment by: bzuka (Aug 03, 2009 06:26)

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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I wonder how long it will take them to realize that no one wants to (not)grip a steering wheel made of air, then hold their arms out in front of them for hours on end. Most of the people who buy the wheel/pedal sets use them only a few times before they realize that it does not feel as realistic as using a conventional controler. This is with realistic materials and force feedback, yet microsoft thinks it would be more popular without the tactile or force sensations?

And it that were not bad enough, they use Natal an an excuse to not develop other products that people actualy want, and now they are pushing natal back a whole quarter when the release date was still over a year away!
i am totally agree with you, so it's pull shed

Natal may one day evolve into something usefull...if some form of force-feedback hologram can be developed...think the holodeck from star-trek. Until then, it's just pissing upwards into the wind.

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Comment by: ThePastor (Aug 03, 2009 18:31)

Of course we all know that no one looks "silly" sitting in their force feedback chair with Formula 1 cockpit controls...

And oh, I'm pretty sure that "'tard" is short for "retard" and "Fag" meant "homosexual"... but feel free to mix and match. I just thought it was funny.

Comment by: ps3lvanub (Aug 03, 2009 18:35)

Oh look TheMoron is back!

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 03, 2009 18:39)

Originally posted by ThePastor:

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Of course we all know that no one looks "silly" sitting in their force feedback chair with Formula 1 cockpit controls...

And oh, I'm pretty sure that "'tard" is short for "retard" and "Fag" meant "homosexual"... but feel free to mix and match. I just thought it was funny.

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Fag has a new meaning, kinda like adis, the net is such a loverly place these days.

Force feedback is silly IMO also its difficult to realistically do, a vibe seat cover(non penetration version of course) is one, perhaps gloves,forearm,elbow,chest,back,wist,leg/knee straps can be next but the trouble then becomes suiting up to paly a game and even that's a niche in a niche in a niche....

Comment by: ThePastor (Aug 04, 2009 06:57)

Oh look... MommyEffer is back.