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Comment by: emugamer (Jul 21, 2008 20:09)

Originally posted by ZeusAV:

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No console this gen will even come close to PS2 numbers. Not even the Wii.

The market has somewhat expanded but there's far too much competition this time for Sony to duplicate the PS2 or even the PS1's success. Them having around 60 million by 2012 sounds more realistic. The "winner" of this gen will probably have around 90 million max.

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And it doesn't help that they are still selling the PS2. They're just competing with themseves. It also depends on where MS is going with the 360 and if that console has real staying power. Probably need another year to determine that. All the latest news seems to point to MS peaking too early and the PS3 really picking up momentum.

Comment by: DoomLight (Jul 21, 2008 20:18)

i agree with previous statements. ps3 will never get up to ps2 total sales.

there was only ONE kind of ps2 to buy. not all these revisions with backward compatibility and some without, and different hard drive sizes.

all that does is confuse the consumer. Sony needs to sell one kind of PS3 and finally get some killer APPS to boot. right now to me its a glorified PS2 with nice graphics but nothing to show what it can do. Killzone2 is basically next year. so sony really has bupkiss right now. if they wanna sell 10 million more systems. they better do it mafia style and "persuade" developers to make exclusives.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 21, 2008 20:28)

Originally posted by DoomLight:

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i agree with previous statements. ps3 will never get up to ps2 total sales.

there was only ONE kind of ps2 to buy. not all these revisions with backward compatibility and some without, and different hard drive sizes.

all that does is confuse the consumer. Sony needs to sell one kind of PS3 and finally get some killer APPS to boot. right now to me its a glorified PS2 with nice graphics but nothing to show what it can do. Killzone2 is basically next year. so sony really has bupkiss right now. if they wanna sell 10 million more systems. they better do it mafia style and "persuade" developers to make exclusives.

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the PS3 is on its way to out selling the 360 world wide so sadly the PS3 will most likely hit PS2 life time sales in a few years.

ZeusAV
the WII will come close if it dose not lose its momentum and the PS3 out maneuvers it.

Comment by: Ankoku (Jul 21, 2008 20:30)

@emugamer...You can't compete with yourself, people buying PS2s right now would not be buying PS3s if the PS2 was not an option...

My note to Sony...Release the blasted white PS3 Already! I need it to match my 360 and Wii! If they don't start getting exclusive rights to games, they won't meet their goal...losing FF13 was a blow

Comment by: SDF_GR (Jul 21, 2008 20:56)

According to SCEE president ps3 has the same selling numbers as ps2 had in same period, But he forgot to mantion that PS2 had way more exclusive titles and nintedo was dead back then.
If they think that they can sell more than 10mill console per year... well everyone has the right to dream.
Sony managed to loose exclusive games even from capcom, a company that have released many 1st class titles and boosted many times PS2.
PS3 lacks from games, from 1st class games to be accurate.
Kaz Hirai at PS day was saying over and over again about "little big planet", what does he think that LBP is? I havent bought PS3 to play LBP.

PS2 had Soul Reaver and Onimusha, what PS3 have? Elephank and Little big Planet?

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 21, 2008 21:01)

I can see them hitting 100millon units sold in 3-5 years easily, simply because their system is alil more polished hardware wise than the others..

Comment by: wolf123 (Jul 21, 2008 21:50)

Originally posted by Ankoku:

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@emugamer...You can't compete with yourself, people buying PS2s right now would not be buying PS3s if the PS2 was not an option...

My note to Sony...Release the blasted white PS3 Already! I need it to match my 360 and Wii! If they don't start getting exclusive rights to games, they won't meet their goal...losing FF13 was a blow

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Your wrong it is going to ps3 and 360 here is the link.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/finalfantasy13/media.html

Comment by: emugamer (Jul 21, 2008 21:52)

Originally posted by Ankoku:

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@emugamer...You can't compete with yourself, people buying PS2s right now would not be buying PS3s if the PS2 was not an option...

My note to Sony...Release the blasted white PS3 Already! I need it to match my 360 and Wii! If they don't start getting exclusive rights to games, they won't meet their goal...losing FF13 was a blow

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Ankoku, they just released the PS2 for the first time in India, opening a whole new market for the PS2 ( I read the article here maybe a week or 2 ago I believe). The reason was to introduce the region to video games I believe. And people there are less likely to buy an expensive PS3. So they are competing with themselves from the standpoint of widening the gap that the PS3 needs to close in on. Not in $$$, because obviously it all goes to the same place. Only from a numbers sold point of view.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 21, 2008 21:53)

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Originally posted by Ankoku:

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@emugamer...You can't compete with yourself, people buying PS2s right now would not be buying PS3s if the PS2 was not an option...

My note to Sony...Release the blasted white PS3 Already! I need it to match my 360 and Wii! If they don't start getting exclusive rights to games, they won't meet their goal...losing FF13 was a blow

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Your wrong it is going to ps3 and 360 here is the link.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/finalfantasy13/media.html

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It just going to the 360 as a port is a huge blow.....

Comment by: wolf123 (Jul 21, 2008 22:09)

Yes I guess if you want to have a game on one disk ps3 vs 3 to 4 360 then its a blow.

Comment by: JaguarGod (Jul 22, 2008 00:13)

FFXIII might actually need the larger disc since FF games are packed with tons of FMV nowadays. However, a DVD9 can hold roughly 70 minutes of High Def video at a decent quality (Roughly HD DVD Quality). Anyway, swapping discs isn't such a big deal. It requires minimal effort and I am sure everyone here knows how to do it, so there should be no fear of making your minds blow up.

I wonder, do they use uncompressed video in PS3 games when they do cinematics? Cause that would be roughly 1.3gbs meaning they could fill up a dual layer blu ray disc with 5 minutes of uncompressed HD video...

Comment by: SDF_GR (Jul 22, 2008 01:24)

Originally posted by JaguarGod:

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Anyway, swapping discs isn't such a big deal. It requires minimal effort and I am sure everyone here knows how to do it, so there should be no fear of making your minds blow up.

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Agree with you, Is more that is ridiculous than the effort to change discs, Isnt like that 360 gamers are gonna change disc every 10mins.
But most of all is a proof to everyone that were saying that consoles and Devs didnt need a large capacity media like BD or HD-DVD.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 22, 2008 01:28)

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Originally posted by JaguarGod:

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Anyway, swapping discs isn't such a big deal. It requires minimal effort and I am sure everyone here knows how to do it, so there should be no fear of making your minds blow up.

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Agree with you, Is more that is ridiculous than the effort to change discs, Isnt like that 360 gamers are gonna change disc every 10mins.
But most of all is a proof to everyone that were saying that consoles and Devs didnt need a large capacity media like BD or HD-DVD.

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trouble is you can't swap discs on multi player games they wont let you thus the DVD limit is bad for MS.

For SP games disc swapping is not a big issue BUT..... how many SP games are worth putting that much more effort into?

Comment by: hade (Jul 22, 2008 11:33)

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"I want to try to see if we can exceed the PS2 numbers after nine years, otherwise why are we in this business?"

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thats why i feel comfortable with my ps3 purchase as opposed to my 360 purchase. ps3 really seems to have longevity and its obvious sony stands behind their product. i really don't think the same can be said about the other. there is no 10 year plan.

for w/e reason mircosoft doesn't seem to have the same/similar vision or even business plan for their gaming division. they just fail miserably. they have already fallen behind this gen and will continue their downward trend regardless if sony is "losing" 3rd party exclusives.

FF on the 360 won't quite have the impact some hope. its not even the breadNbutter genre 360 fans have and continue to demand. there is a very good reason why FF will release FIRST in Japan on the PS3 ;)

Comment by: jutsu (Jul 22, 2008 15:05)

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It just going to the 360 as a port is a huge blow.....

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actually, FF13 is Developed on PC, Based on PC. Using Crystal Tools.
so Square port it to Japan PS3 first. and then port it to US X360 And US PS3.

FF13 will be released on PC too

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FACT: The president of Square Enix said “It would be a wise move to release Final Fantasy 13 as a multi-platform (Xbox 360, PS3, PC) product.

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FACT: Xbox 360 is virtually identical to the PC. There is virtually no cost in porting a PC game to the Xbox 360.

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On the first day of the show, the Japanese game publisher announced that Final Fantasy XIII is coming to PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 (in Europe and North America only) and PC

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Kitase: “As for development, we are using Crystal Tools for development. We are using it for the PC base.

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sources:
http://www.slashgear.com/final-fantasy-x...ease-299952.php
http://www.gamexeon.com/forum/console-ne...an-ke-x360.html
http://www.finalfantasyseries.net/final-...at-e3-explained

Comment by: varnull (Jul 22, 2008 15:18)

With the dire 360 sales in Japan it really is no surprise that they are leaving FF to the ps3. That doesn't exactly make it an exclusive, just sensible decisions on behalf of the game devs who can't see much point making a Japanese version for sales of probably <10,000

Again we have lots of ranting on about which is the best in a pointless topic quoting some Sony generated figures.. who cares?.. I hope to sell 500,000,000 of my sarcastic comments booklets.. just because that is my target doesn't mean they will sell, or that anybody will want them.

The ps3 is an overpriced lump of plastic with limited game selection and needing constant firmware upgrades just to play new games.. It has a brand name associated with anti-consumer tactics and proprietary lockin/no resale possibility rumours. Not a good choice. Sony can say all they want.. more people will buy something else, or like the sensible money will wait for the next gen to arrive. It may come as a HUGE surprise to some people but lots of us are more than happy with our last gen consoles.. games are dirt cheap and we have hundreds and hundreds to chose from. Add to that the advantage of being able to mod and pirate.. it's a lose lose for the lockin merchants.. hehehe.. Expect a ps4 announcement by 2nd quarter of 2009.

Free open source software = made by end users who want an application to work. Get off my beach before I burn down your village!

Comment by: SDF_GR (Jul 22, 2008 16:22)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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trouble is you can't swap discs on multi player games they wont let you thus the DVD limit is bad for MS.

For SP games disc swapping is not a big issue BUT..... how many SP games are worth putting that much more effort into?

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As it is known already, i dont like MS, but i dont (or i dont want) to believe that MS will not do nothing about it, they are already in a bad position with all that swapping disc story.

Originally posted by varnull:

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The ps3 is an overpriced lump of plastic with limited game selection and needing constant firmware upgrades just to play new games.

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FW updates is more to add staff,to make PS3 software manage the hardware better and to improve the lock system and of course fix various bugs.
From when updates become a bad thing at the 1st place?

Originally posted by varnull:

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It has a brand name associated with anti-consumer tactics and proprietary lockin/no resale possibility rumours. Not a good choice. Sony can say all they want.. more people will buy something else,

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That PS3 is closing the gap, shows exectlly this thing.

Originally posted by varnull:

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or like the sensible money will wait for the next gen to arrive.

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What you are saying....is that next gen consoles will have less locking systems than the present ones. That sounds really logic.

Originally posted by varnull:

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It may come as a HUGE surprise to some people but lots of us are more than happy with our last gen consoles.. games are dirt cheap and we have hundreds and hundreds to chose from. Add to that the advantage of being able to mod and pirate.. it's a lose lose for the lockin merchants.. hehehe.. Expect a ps4 announcement by 2nd quarter of 2009.

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No it is not a surprise, if you dont have a complete home entertainment system, or at least an HD ready TV it isnt.
Like is not a surprise that there are many people like you that cause they cant enjoy something it sucks.
The same story goes on from a Playstation topic to an x-box topic, and again and again.

Comment by: redux79 (Jul 22, 2008 17:11)

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For SP games disc swapping is not a big issue BUT..... how many SP games are worth putting that much more effort into?

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I really think that if game devs put all their effort into a SP game/campaign and left multiplayer as forethought they could make games that actually lasted more than 8-10 hours. I know there's been a handful of games on both systems that have SP campaigns that last 30-40 hours or more but they're far and few between.

Lots of my friends buy the next big game and never even bother to start the SP campaign they only play online matches. It just seems like an easy way for game devs to skimp on the actual game itself. I'm not trying to knock online multi-player it just pisses me of that the expectation now seems be that consumers will be satisfied with a 10 hour (or less) stand alone campaign and the however many hundred hours of repetitive (to me at least) online multi-player.

I would really be interested in a game that had no little or no multi-player just all of the effort put into the actual game itself. If a $60 game can't stand on it's own with just single player then it's not a game I’m interested in.

Comment by: hade (Jul 22, 2008 17:15)

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Again we have lots of ranting on about which is the best in a pointless topic quoting some Sony generated figures.. who cares?.. I hope to sell 500,000,000 of my sarcastic comments booklets.. just because that is my target doesn't mean they will sell, or that anybody will want them.

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ummm try taking the anti sony hat off for min and be REALISTIC. it does seem logical when given the fact that SONY's TWO previous CONSOLES sold well OVER 100 MILLION units that they just might reach their goal. your scenario isn't an apples to apples comparison. sure argue price till your blue in the face but prices are only decreasing so your going to have to come up with something better. is the ps3 on or around the same sales track as the ps2 back in the day?

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The ps3 is an overpriced lump of plastic with limited game selection and needing constant firmware upgrades just to play new games

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ironically your statement comes again from left field. most educated folks have come to realize the ps3 at the very least is a decent blu-ray player, the limited game argument simply doesn't apply anymore when compared to its main competitors, and i'll admit GTA IV was frustrating but i'll take a game(gameplay) bug over the RROD anyday. the firmware upgrades are always for the BETTER.

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proprietary lockin/no resale possibility rumours. Not a good choice

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if your referring to locking games to a specific console then your a little outdated with your FUD. this has been dismissed time and time again and currently i am unaware of ANY NEW RUMORS regarding this. if you have something FACTUAL on this then by all means share. if your referring to sony's record shwing dig, well its time to get over it. are they still using the same methods today?

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more people will buy something else, or like the sensible money will wait for the next gen to arrive.

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i hate to bust your chops but if your waiting for "the next gen to arrive" you'll be paying an arm n a leg. if you really think the ps3 is overpriced, its game are overpriced then i expect you yourself will not be welcoming THE NEXT GEN any time soon ;)

i expect the next xbox or ps to retail around $700 if not more with games retailing around $80. hows that for "THE NEXT GEN?"

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Expect a ps4 announcement by 2nd quarter of 2009.

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you keep telling yourself that. at the very best you'll be lucky if they even announce ps4 development is fully underway. xbox and microsoft may be another story ;)

Comment by: bdoggie08 (Jul 22, 2008 18:26)

^Bravo dude...bravo.

Comment by: core2kid (Jul 23, 2008 00:15)

The 360 has the 1 year lead that the PS2 had, which is why its up there in sales. The PS3 had a really bad launch. A 20GB for $500 and a 60GB for $600. The Wii is just all out fun, for a couple weeks. If anything will come close to the PS2 sales, it will be the Wii. The cheap prices and kid approved games target parents and parents get it for their kids. Also remember that last generation. DVD was the big thing and everyone was switching to DVD fast. It didn't require a new TV, just any TV with a new movie format called DVD. That definatly pushed sales on the PS2 and Xbox but it pushed the PS2 more because it didn't require any additional hardware, and It was Microsofts first year in the console business. The PS2 had so many advantages over Nintendo and Microsoft that it was basically unfair. This generation, there is no "Must go buy" feature that any of the systems have. Blu-Ray is there with the PS3, but a recent survey I saw online showed that only 10 or so % of people want to switch to or buy a Blu-Ray player.

As for the lifespan of the systems, I honestly can't see the PSP lasting long due to piracy, The Wii lasting long due to limited 3rd party support, and the 360 due to the media it uses, and the PS3 due to the fact Sony keeps releasing a new model every f****** month! Sony hasn't had a easily available PS3 with backwards compatibility for about 6 months!

I was pretty disappointed when I look at this generation of video games. First with all the problems that the systems have with heat, PS3 40GB included and the fact that they are so expensive. IMO, the best generation for video games was either PS1/N64/Sega when the systems had good platformer games and not many shooters, or the PS2/GC/Xbox generation which lasted a very long time with some awesome games released during the generation.

Comment by: xnonsuchx (Jul 23, 2008 10:42)

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Originally posted by Ankoku:

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@emugamer...You can't compete with yourself, people buying PS2s right now would not be buying PS3s if the PS2 was not an option...

My note to Sony...Release the blasted white PS3 Already! I need it to match my 360 and Wii! If they don't start getting exclusive rights to games, they won't meet their goal...losing FF13 was a blow

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Your wrong it is going to ps3 and 360 here is the link.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/finalfantasy13/media.html

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It just going to the 360 as a port is a huge blow.....

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But what's odd is that M$ kinda wants it as another 'inroad' title to break into the Japanese market, but SE doesn't plan to release a Japanese version of it for the 360.

Personally, it wasn't a loss to me as I never really cared about the FF games. I also don't think the 360 sucks...I would just never buy one or any games for it with my own money because I refuse to give M$ money. Now I just wish AMD would catch back up to Intel on CPUs so I can not give money to Intel either! :-)

Anyway, yeah, I agree that with the price difference and all, PS3 sales will NEVER even reach PS2 sales...PS2 sales have been quite miraculous for almost ANY piece of hardware, still keeping a good pace with NEWER systems and probably will for another couple years.

Only if the PS3 drops near or under $200 AND retains PS2-compatibility is it even possible to approach that lofty goal. I can understand Sony wanting to drop PS2-compatibility through problematic software emulation, but maybe a PS3 redesign w/ a special slot for an optional $30-50US PS2-compatibility expander (via hardware) could better fill the gap between hardware support and software emulation.

Most gamers I know now, though, are getting multiple systems rather than just sticking with one, like they used to, so it also looks like the 'market dynamics' have changed a bit.

Comment by: Vr0cK (Jul 23, 2008 12:24)

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Anyway, yeah, I agree that with the price difference and all, PS3 sales will NEVER even reach PS2 sales...

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I bought my first PS2 early when it was like $500 (and still working like new because Sony does make excellent products) so IMO price isnt Sony's problem. For every system they release, it had always been really expensive since the first PS1. The problem i think is that people are too demanding, wanting more yet they dont want to pay alot. I remember when PS1 first came out competing with Sega Saturn at like $400, just to play PS1 games and CDs, same with PS2 but just with DVDs. Now the PS3 has more functions, online gaming capabilities etc. for about the same price their previous consoles started off with. With the PS3 not just attracting the same +140 million PS2 owners, along with new coming gamers, its also being attracted as an excellent Blu-ray player for those that just want a Blu-ray player, meaning more people wuld be interested in the PS3 then they were with the PS2. Every company has a goal and Sony is to sell 150million PS3, and i can honestly see that happening.

Comment by: JaguarGod (Jul 24, 2008 02:16)

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I bought my first PS2 early when it was like $500 (and still working like new because Sony does make excellent products) so IMO price isnt Sony's problem.

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The PS2 was made in Japan until the thin models came out. I still have my "fat" ps2 and they run great.

The ps3 is made in China, and I highly doubt Chinese built systems come close to the quality of Japanese built systems. I am already having some problems with both my ps3s. They lock up at times during gameplay and all the firmware updates piss me off. I no longer use them for video games or the internet. I use them for watching DL anime and Blu-Ray movies. My oldest ps2, I was playing Onimusha Dawn of Dreams, and I had to leave before finishing Dark Realm, so I left the system on for about 15 hours and came back and finished 52 levels of Dark realm and it worked flawlessly. Not bad for a system that is... hmm I forget how old... Probably 8 years or so.

My biggest gripe with the ps3 is that they are making their controllers cheaper (in quality). I went through 4 controllers so far... The joysticks wear out too fast. However, the wireless is great as well as the battery. Sony batteries are usually very good. I use Sony Cameras and I love their batteries. Same with their memory sticks.

Comment by: CF01 (Jul 24, 2008 04:12)

ps2 was amazing