News

Comment by: cleverick (Dec 20, 2007 16:10)

AND?

Comment by: emugamer (Dec 20, 2007 16:52)

Originally posted by Globe08:

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Are we that fat and lazy of a species that the mere thought of potentially having to get up and change a game disc is so frightning and inconvenient thus making a console better than another?

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More discs means more clutter. If every game in my collection required 2 discs, I wouldn't have a place to sleep.
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.
...and lazy

Comment by: jonny-x (Dec 20, 2007 17:30)

Quote:

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Originally posted by Globe08:

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Are we that fat and lazy of a species that the mere thought of potentially having to get up and change a game disc is so frightning and inconvenient thus making a console better than another?

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More discs means more clutter. If every game in my collection required 2 discs, I wouldn't have a place to sleep.
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.
.
.
...and lazy

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You do realise that dual DVD cases that are the same size as single cases exist, right?

Comment by: SProdigy (Dec 20, 2007 17:49)

All of you are bickering over "in 2-3 years... yada yada will happen." Well, I bet that "yada yada" will be all new consoles, considering the original Xbox and GameCube only had about a 5 year life, and 360 is already entering year 3...

Comment by: redux79 (Dec 20, 2007 18:07)

A game needing more than one disc isn't only inconvenient it adds more risk to the equation. I take really good care of my discs; despite this I can still remember a number of psx and pc games that became unplayable due to damage to a single disc out of the set.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Dec 20, 2007 18:25)

Originally posted by SProdigy:

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All of you are bickering over "in 2-3 years... yada yada will happen." Well, I bet that "yada yada" will be all new consoles, considering the original Xbox and GameCube only had about a 5 year life, and 360 is already entering year 3...

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I doubt sony has the money to launch a new console, and believe it or not the 360 dose have enough power to take it into 014 with HDVD gaming.

Of coarse if the 360 loses a lot of publishers to sony in the next 3-4 years it would be poiuntless to propup the 360.

So i guess the PS3 is dead since its going to take it 1-2 years to regain brand position, well the 7thgen is over I shall wait for the 8th.... :P

LOL


redux79
never treated mew games that badly.
but ya multi disc games are a btch.

Originally posted by hade:

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actual diskspace for multiplatform games is minimal. insomniac (exclusive) did say however Resistance FOM was something like 22gigs.

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with 8-10 GB of filler data to place the real data in the right palces for better loading times..... its a known early PS3 issue however newer games are more optimized in loading time so they don't have to use a lot of filler.

Comment by: mododaz (Dec 20, 2007 20:05)

I just got my 360 today. Good news

Comment by: ck44 (Dec 21, 2007 01:21)

Originally posted by mododaz:

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I just got my 360 today. Good news

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good choice dude, xbox360 roks. Especially with xbox live.

all this talking about games not fitting on 360 disks is bull, i mean comon so far games have fit on them, including some of the best: halo3, assasins creed, gears of war, oblivion, and soon to be gta4. Microsoft just paid alot of money and thats why theyre gettin more exclusive content. Who knows maybe in the next 3 years, like that one guy said, theyre release another console. Plus why would a game need 30gb of memory, in this case blue ray discs, dvd-9 is just fine.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Dec 21, 2007 01:31)

Quote:

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Originally posted by mododaz:

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I just got my 360 today. Good news

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good choice dude, xbox360 roks. Especially with xbox live.

all this talking about games not fitting on 360 disks is bull, i mean comon so far games have fit on them, including some of the best: halo3, assasins creed, gears of war, oblivion, and soon to be gta4. Microsoft just paid alot of money and thats why theyre gettin more exclusive content. Who knows maybe in the next 3 years, like that one guy said, theyre release another console. Plus why would a game need 30gb of memory, in this case blue ray discs, dvd-9 is just fine.

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Halo 3 is too short and unfinished to be a 50$ game, the rest are on the PC, plus AS is on the PS3, the 360 is not as "great" as it once was at least tis ahrdware is getting alil better.

also BR games use 25GB discs not 50GB discs, 25 is more than enough for most titles, altho PGR did use more than 15GB of non filer data and MGS4 will use almost 30GB by some reports, but still for most SP games DVD9 is good enough.

Comment by: Unknown4 (Dec 21, 2007 02:29)

Quote:

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Quote:

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Originally posted by mododaz:

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I just got my 360 today. Good news

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good choice dude, xbox360 roks. Especially with xbox live.

all this talking about games not fitting on 360 disks is bull, i mean comon so far games have fit on them, including some of the best: halo3, assasins creed, gears of war, oblivion, and soon to be gta4. Microsoft just paid alot of money and thats why theyre gettin more exclusive content. Who knows maybe in the next 3 years, like that one guy said, theyre release another console. Plus why would a game need 30gb of memory, in this case blue ray discs, dvd-9 is just fine.

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I agree, whats the point of a bluray disc with 25 gb, when dvd9 is good enough. I have xbox live too and it is an amazing online service.
Halo 3 IS worth the money man, I play online a lot and so do other millions of people, I think its a cool game. I prefer playing games on consoles better than on a PC, I also have gears of war and call of duty 4, which are great! all my friends have 360's so I'm satisfied with it.

Comment by: lxfactor (Dec 21, 2007 16:34)

whats wrong with you guys. dvd9 isnt enough.. what was it PGR4.. they couldnt fit day and night on a DVD9.. so they took it out completely because it couldnt fit on the xbox... and check the sizes of BD ps3 rips.

MotorStorm EUR - 15 GB
Resistance FOM - 22 GB
Formula One Championship Edition EUR - 12 GB
Ninja Gaiden Sigma 11 GB

games are breaking DVD9

Comment by: torrne666 (Dec 21, 2007 17:57)

This debate about disc size is over...has anyone bought/played the shivering isles add on for the 360? if so then you will realise that it downloads the whole disc of data to your 360 hard drive.Where is the problem? it also seems to load and handle a bit better as well :)

And the games which IXFACTOR mentioned are all ps3 games,which lets face it, programmers have a nightmare programming code for the ps3 because it cant handle simple graphics engines and has to go all over the shop to output a simple fps which is just above ps2 standard.
Ps3 will be dead within a year, they have lost too much money, and now all of the exclusives are coming to the 360 it seems there are less and less reasons to own a blueray player that dabbles in gaming. sorry but they had their moment of glory with ps2 which was awesome for the time it reigned.ps3 is a jack of all trades..but a master of none!

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Dec 21, 2007 18:22)

Originally posted by lxfactor:

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whats wrong with you guys. dvd9 isnt enough.. what was it PGR4.. they couldnt fit day and night on a DVD9.. so they took it out completely because it couldnt fit on the xbox... and check the sizes of BD ps3 rips.

MotorStorm EUR - 15 GB
Resistance FOM - 22 GB
Formula One Championship Edition EUR - 12 GB
Ninja Gaiden Sigma 11 GB

games are breaking DVD9

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And some have 2-6GB of filler data....altho PGR is the first 20ishGB game to not use filler and the 360 version is missing day/night changes, size is a issue yes but its going to be 2 more years before its systemic.

Originally posted by torrne666:

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This debate about disc size is over...has anyone bought/played the shivering isles add on for the 360? if so then you will realise that it downloads the whole disc of data to your 360 hard drive.Where is the problem? it also seems to load and handle a bit better as well :)

And the games which IXFACTOR mentioned are all ps3 games,which lets face it, programmers have a nightmare programming code for the ps3 because it cant handle simple graphics engines and has to go all over the shop to output a simple fps which is just above ps2 standard.
Ps3 will be dead within a year, they have lost too much money, and now all of the exclusives are coming to the 360 it seems there are less and less reasons to own a blueray player that dabbles in gaming. sorry but they had their moment of glory with ps2 which was awesome for the time it reigned.ps3 is a jack of all trades..but a master of none!

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Completely shortsighted statement, what the 360 lacks the PS3 has and vice versa, the PS3 lacks optimization and devs the 360 has them, however the 360 is havign space issues with some games that will only get worse in time and the HD caching system it uses is poorly built to handle it with disc data in some instances making a game crash lock up and freeze.

Also the 360 has a ton of hardware issues that MS are fixing one at a time when they revise the gdamn hardware the PS3 is costly but is built better and the 60GB unit the "real" PS3 is only 300-400$ and a better buy currently than the 360 and any other PS3 unit, when the 360 gets the new GPU chip to go with the 65nm CPU chip they put in months ago it will be worth 300, if they put the 120GB HDD in the premium or the HDVD in the elite with the new chips and fixes 400-500 is what it would be worth.


What I am getting at both consoles are not really worth more than 300$ at this point and time and they are not going anywhere in the next 3-5 years however the 360 is already showing its age, as the PS3 gets better devs will shift to it and outside of 3 years the 360 will be in the position the PS3 is in.

Comment by: NexGen76 (Dec 21, 2007 18:44)

360 DVD9 disc size is very much a issue & not Myth.Microsoft knows that this is the reason you see them pushing alot of major titles out on the market asap.Why do you guys think UT3 didn't come to the 360 same time as PS3 because the game is so big that Epic will be cutting out a few levels.

Quote:

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Epic president Mark Rein said on Tuesday that Unreal Tournament 3 for Xbox 360 will likely have less game content than its PS3 counterpart due to Microsoft's limiting disc size.

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http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=129288


Also that little dirty secret Microsoft is keeping from the consumers that in the Future all 360 is going to require HD in order to play games.So that mean if you got a 360 without a HD your screwed by Microsoft again.

Quote:

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Enthusiast site Xbox Family reports that Microsoft will require a hard drive for certain Xbox 360 games due to the limiting size of 9 GB DVDs and unnecessary load times.

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http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=127148


I wouldn't take a 360 if it was given to me it was a rushed console.RROD & Limited DVD9 space i think i will pass.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Dec 21, 2007 18:58)

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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360 DVD9 disc size is very much a issue & not Myth.Microsoft knows that this is the reason you see them pushing alot of major titles out on the market asap.Why do you guys think UT3 didn't come to the 360 same time as PS3 because the game is so big that Epic will be cutting out a few levels.

Quote:

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Epic president Mark Rein said on Tuesday that Unreal Tournament 3 for Xbox 360 will likely have less game content than its PS3 counterpart due to Microsoft's limiting disc size.

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http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=129288


Also that little dirty secret Microsoft is keeping from the consumers that in the Future all 360 is going to require HD in order to play games.So that mean if you got a 360 without a HD your screwed by Microsoft again.

Quote:

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Enthusiast site Xbox Family reports that Microsoft will require a hard drive for certain Xbox 360 games due to the limiting size of 9 GB DVDs and unnecessary load times.

---

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=127148


I wouldn't take a 360 if it was given to me it was a rushed console.RROD & Limited DVD9 space i think i will pass.

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God you are like some with the PS3 who spout nonsense...all 360 games are made to work WITHOUT a HDD, only a few games really require it to function, DVD9 is not a real issue right now but will be in time.

And don't start on load times..... shall I bring up filler data to help with load time issues on the PS3, the PS3 is still unoptimized in comparasion.

I will agree the 360 was rushed and its hardware is not the best in stability but even that will be fixed by the end of next year and soemtime in 09/010 they might put a HDVD in all units making way for HDVD 360 gaming.

Currently a real PS3 the 60GB unit is about 300-400$ and a better value than the current 360 offerings once the 360 gets "fixed" it will be the same or better value than the current 60GB units.

Comment by: wetsparks (Dec 21, 2007 22:13)

What I'm curious about is how much space Gears of War took up on a disc for the 360. Because when it was released for the PC, they claim there is an extra 5 hours of play time on it. That would signify to me that something is going on, either Microsoft paid the devs to push it out quick or they didn't have room and wanted to have it in the game so they decided to wait for the PC version.

Comment by: saltynuts (Dec 21, 2007 22:14)

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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360 DVD9 disc size is very much a issue & not Myth.Microsoft knows that this is the reason you see them pushing alot of major titles out on the market asap.Why do you guys think UT3 didn't come to the 360 same time as PS3 because the game is so big that Epic will be cutting out a few levels.

Quote:

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Epic president Mark Rein said on Tuesday that Unreal Tournament 3 for Xbox 360 will likely have less game content than its PS3 counterpart due to Microsoft's limiting disc size.

---

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=129288


Also that little dirty secret Microsoft is keeping from the consumers that in the Future all 360 is going to require HD in order to play games.So that mean if you got a 360 without a HD your screwed by Microsoft again.

Quote:

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Enthusiast site Xbox Family reports that Microsoft will require a hard drive for certain Xbox 360 games due to the limiting size of 9 GB DVDs and unnecessary load times.

---

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=127148





















I wouldn't take a 360 if it was given to me it was a rushed console.RROD & Limited DVD9 space i think i will pass.

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You sound like a fool a free 360 is a free 360 so if someone give you a 360 take and stop sounding like the C.E.O of sony.i mean really its not that bad and they have some good games now not next year or the year after that.

Comment by: rdxtreme (Dec 27, 2007 20:21)

you all are all noobs. lets REWIND before starting with this generation's game size. On xbox1, people often looked for excess filler data so that their "backup" games would fit on a dvd5. (alot of games took 5 - 6 GB of data on factory pressed dvd9's but turns out a significant portion of the data was trailers and extra content for OTHER GAMES and not the one you wanted to play, as well as dummy files)

also look at God of War 2 for ps2, it fills up the majority of a dvd9, but if you decided to look at the file listings, you'd see MOST of the files were for various resolutions, standard definition or widescreen, as well as extra content, take that stuff out and you have a game that fits comfortably on a dvd5.

now lets look at the "nextgen" titles. The same stuff is happening. Ge t a ps3 disc image and look at the real file listings before saying stupid things. In MOST games, since DVDs have been used as a storage medium, the AUDIO files take up most of the space, then the rendered movies (there are usually less pre-rendered movies than voiceover stuff). Despite boasting Playstation 3's blu-ray medium and processing capabilities , the system's games have alot of pre-rendered movies in a compression that doesn't save much space! High definition mpeg2's are not space efficient, encode that same movie in HD xvid and compare the file size. This is an example of how space is wasted but I've seen this more on Playstation 3 titles (to fill space on the blu-ray disc and make ken kutaragi feel better about his claims) than I have seen on xbox360.

dvd9 is still enough space for most games. and remember the xtreme5.0 firmware for xbox360 with the coming promise of booting xbox360 games off of a dvd5? surprise, thats because alot of "nextgen" titles still fit on dvd5's.

next up is data rate transfer times. BLU-RAY CAN READ DATA FASTER THAN DVD'S CAN. Okay with that said, whats the problem? well PLAYSTATION 3'S MEMORY IS TOO LITTLE AND TOO SLOW TO MAKE USE OF THE FASTER READ TIMES. Playstation 3 has 512mb of memory, which is actually 256mb of XDRAM RAM and 256mb of GRAPHICAL (GDDR3) RAM. THIS IS PLAYSTATION 3'S MAIN DOWNFALL IN PROCESSING POWER, IF YOU WEREN'T SURE. The blu-ray is FAST, the cell processor is FAST, the memory is where most of the data would be stored for processing between being read by the disc and the processor... IT SLOWS THE SYSTEM DOWN. and there isn't enough RAM so then the system either stores data temporarily on the hard drive and read later (A SLOW METHOD OF CACHING DATA) or it swaps data out of RAM as fast as it can. its better if it can just store more data in ram.

The xbox360 on the other hand just has more memory to store things with, but doesn't REQUIRE a hard drive at all, so in some situation it CAN'T cache to the hard drive and has to swap out of memory all the time.

I'm tired of typing actually. but there is more to be said here.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Dec 27, 2007 20:47)

Originally posted by rdxtreme:

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you all are all noobs. lets REWIND before starting with this generation's game size. On xbox1, people often looked for excess filler data so that their "backup" games would fit on a dvd5. (alot of games took 5 - 6 GB of data on factory pressed dvd9's but turns out a significant portion of the data was trailers and extra content for OTHER GAMES and not the one you wanted to play, as well as dummy files)

also look at God of War 2 for ps2, it fills up the majority of a dvd9, but if you decided to look at the file listings, you'd see MOST of the files were for various resolutions, standard definition or widescreen, as well as extra content, take that stuff out and you have a game that fits comfortably on a dvd5.

now lets look at the "nextgen" titles. The same stuff is happening. Ge t a ps3 disc image and look at the real file listings before saying stupid things. In MOST games, since DVDs have been used as a storage medium, the AUDIO files take up most of the space, then the rendered movies (there are usually less pre-rendered movies than voiceover stuff). Despite boasting Playstation 3's blu-ray medium and processing capabilities , the system's games have alot of pre-rendered movies in a compression that doesn't save much space! High definition mpeg2's are not space efficient, encode that same movie in HD xvid and compare the file size. This is an example of how space is wasted but I've seen this more on Playstation 3 titles (to fill space on the blu-ray disc and make ken kutaragi feel better about his claims) than I have seen on xbox360.

dvd9 is still enough space for most games. and remember the xtreme5.0 firmware for xbox360 with the coming promise of booting xbox360 games off of a dvd5? surprise, thats because alot of "nextgen" titles still fit on dvd5's.

next up is data rate transfer times. BLU-RAY CAN READ DATA FASTER THAN DVD'S CAN. Okay with that said, whats the problem? well PLAYSTATION 3'S MEMORY IS TOO LITTLE AND TOO SLOW TO MAKE USE OF THE FASTER READ TIMES. Playstation 3 has 512mb of memory, which is actually 256mb of XDRAM RAM and 256mb of GRAPHICAL (GDDR3) RAM. THIS IS PLAYSTATION 3'S MAIN DOWNFALL IN PROCESSING POWER, IF YOU WEREN'T SURE. The blu-ray is FAST, the cell processor is FAST, the memory is where most of the data would be stored for processing between being read by the disc and the processor... IT SLOWS THE SYSTEM DOWN. and there isn't enough RAM so then the system either stores data temporarily on the hard drive and read later (A SLOW METHOD OF CACHING DATA) or it swaps data out of RAM as fast as it can. its better if it can just store more data in ram.

The xbox360 on the other hand just has more memory to store things with, but doesn't REQUIRE a hard drive at all, so in some situation it CAN'T cache to the hard drive and has to swap out of memory all the time.

I'm tired of typing actually. but there is more to be said here.

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Hammer all the wanna be "heads" will ya :X
I should keep it in my pants :P

LOL

But you are right they all have issues they are either dealing with or ignoring.

Comment by: Unknown4 (Dec 27, 2007 22:09)

xbox 360 rocks, it beats the ps3 anyday.

Comment by: Edgewise (Dec 28, 2007 08:54)

Originally posted by Unknown4:

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xbox 360 rocks, it beats the ps3 anyday.

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useless, immature, and stupid. should be banned forever just for that. sorry that is just dumb.

Comment by: Unknown4 (Dec 28, 2007 21:35)

hahaha!! right....

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Dec 28, 2007 22:33)

Originally posted by Unknown4:

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hahaha!! right....

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well it was immature.....

but then why else are we all here to btch and rant about stuff :P

Comment by: borhan9 (Dec 28, 2007 22:47)

Just another upgrade.

Comment by: EvilDeeds (Dec 30, 2007 21:31)

Quote:

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Globe08:

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Are we that fat and lazy of a species that the mere thought of potentially having to get up and change a game disc is so frightning and inconvenient thus making a console better than another?

---

More discs means more clutter. If every game in my collection required 2 discs, I wouldn't have a place to sleep.
.
.
.
.
...and lazy

---

You do realise that dual DVD cases that are the same size as single cases exist, right?

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Like anybody keeps their discs in the case! lol... especially multi-disc games. I mean, just the other day a mate assumed the halo3 bonus disc was a coaster cos its been there over a month... I dont even remember removing the disc from the case, they just end up on the side