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Comment by: budro (Aug 06, 2007 14:01)

awesome, bout time M$ did something other than extend the warranty and make everything more confusing lol

Comment by: sukhvail (Aug 06, 2007 14:06)

This is definitely a step in the right direction for Microsoft, plus it will be easier for analysts to find out the real failure rate of the consoles. The $5 credit is nice, but more people would register if they gave a certain credit to their xbl account.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 06, 2007 15:59)

MS is limping in the right direction but they could do a bit more still....

Comment by: webe123 (Aug 06, 2007 16:33)

I just wonder WHY they don't adress the problem of overheating in the first place?

Having a place to fix xbox 360's is great, but making them to where they DON'T OVERHEAT is an even better solution!

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 06, 2007 16:37)

Originally posted by webe123:

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I just wonder WHY they don't adress the problem of overheating in the first place?

Having a place to fix xbox 360's is great, but making them to where they DON'T OVERHEAT is an even better solution!

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thats a toughie they could have forseen the money loss and put it plus 40% more into fixing the problem ASAP but they chosen to wait and its on them that they let it go.

Comment by: hughjars (Aug 06, 2007 18:10)

Originally posted by webe123:

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I just wonder WHY they don't adress the problem of overheating in the first place?

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- I think the toughie is finding out exactly what happened in time.
The story I've heard is to do with marginal heat-sinking & the CPU's thermal paste which didn't 'age test' properly.

Originally posted by webe123:

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making them to where they DON'T OVERHEAT is an even better solution!

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- I think we'll find the new hardware & changes have solved this.

It's all redundant anyways now as the 65nm CPU & GPU are in production and either already on the shelves or about to hit the shelves
(it would be very handy if someone could post up the box/batch coding to look out for on this).

Pity for the minority that had problems but they stepped up and did the right thing, they made hardware changes and gave a 3 year warranty covering every XBox 360 made.
Nothing "confusing" about that at all iMO.

Comment by: JorDogg (Aug 06, 2007 18:19)

wouldnt you be gutted if it crapped out just after 3 years, by that time they should be cheap enough to just replace though newayz!

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 06, 2007 18:30)

Originally posted by JorDogg:

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wouldnt you be gutted if it crapped out just after 3 years, by that time they should be cheap enough to just replace though newayz!

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No sicne the PS3 once optimized can go 30-70% more powerful than it currently is right now,hell computer CPUs are moving to the CELLs design ,the PS3 can easily last till 012-013,the next Nin console will only be about as powerfull as the 360 and whenever the Xbox 2 rolls around it should be a bit more powerful than the 360 and PS3 if Jp devs stay with the WII or move back to the PS3 a new MS system wont make a dent in anything.

Comment by: JorDogg (Aug 06, 2007 23:16)

Quote:

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Originally posted by JorDogg:

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wouldnt you be gutted if it crapped out just after 3 years, by that time they should be cheap enough to just replace though newayz!

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No sicne the PS3 once optimized can go 30-70% more powerful than it currently is right now,hell computer CPUs are moving to the CELLs design ,the PS3 can easily last till 012-013,the next Nin console will only be about as powerfull as the 360 and whenever the Xbox 2 rolls around it should be a bit more powerful than the 360 and PS3 if Jp devs stay with the WII or move back to the PS3 a new MS system wont make a dent in anything.

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thats why i waited for the PS3, although i would love to get my hands on a 360 for "bioshock"! looks awsome but i suppose i can just play that on my computer

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 06, 2007 23:38)

Quote:

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Quote:

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Originally posted by JorDogg:

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wouldnt you be gutted if it crapped out just after 3 years, by that time they should be cheap enough to just replace though newayz!

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No sicne the PS3 once optimized can go 30-70% more powerful than it currently is right now,hell computer CPUs are moving to the CELLs design ,the PS3 can easily last till 012-013,the next Nin console will only be about as powerfull as the 360 and whenever the Xbox 2 rolls around it should be a bit more powerful than the 360 and PS3 if Jp devs stay with the WII or move back to the PS3 a new MS system wont make a dent in anything.

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thats why i waited for the PS3, although i would love to get my hands on a 360 for "bioshock"! looks awsome but i suppose i can just play that on my computer

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I know I am getting that game...like now new and from gamestop :P


The PS3 is going to be painful in the short run you'll have a couple o games that use it in any real context and the rest seem to work better o the 360 but if you stop and look at it early adoption for both sucks scien teh 360 has a stupid high fail rate,so you cant really go wrong picking one as long as you understand the games you want,while both seem to be more flash than substance they are at the least flashy but using different styles *L*.

Comment by: Kraytos (Aug 07, 2007 08:07)

This is an improvement,still does nothing for those who live outside the U.S like myself though.

Comment by: ChromeMud (Aug 07, 2007 15:50)

Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:

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No sicne the PS3 once optimized can go 30-70% more powerful than it currently is right now,hell computer CPUs are moving to the CELLs design ,the PS3 can easily last till 012-013,the next Nin console will only be about as powerfull as the 360 and whenever the Xbox 2 rolls around it should be a bit more powerful than the 360 and PS3 if Jp devs stay with the WII or move back to the PS3 a new MS system wont make a dent in anything.

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I agree with you that the PS3 once optimized will offer a 30-70% computational improvement but it will always be restricted by it's memory and RSX chip in terms of it's video throughput.
What I didn't agree with was when you said the next Xbox will only be a bit more powerful than the 360 and a new MS system wont make a dent in anything.
The 360 is atleast 5X more powerful than the old Xbox with 8X more memory.I don't think Microsoft will release a replacement console that is just a bit more powerful.
It's likely to have atleast 2 Gigs of system RAM with perhaps a custom quad core 64bit AMD/Intel chip with a large cache.It will leapfrog the 360 as much as the 360 did to the old Xbox.
To assume the PS3 will be fighting in the same ring as Microsofts next console is like comparing a PS3 to a PS2.There would simply be no comparison as they would be a generation apart no matter what optimization you care to mention.
The CELL CPU is powerful, but the cost of optimizing software to run on it negates any advantage that it has over traditional CPU's.A similar result can be obtained more easily and cheaply on conventional CPU's.By the time fully optimized compilers become available that will make programming CELL easier,it will be an old relic of silicon that promised as much as the Emotion Engine and delivered a lot less than the hype.

Comment by: hughjars (Aug 07, 2007 16:41)

I have to say I agree ChromeMud.

Sony are now a gen behind and the Microsoft strategy is working out very nicely for them.

IMO it was always intended to be a gradual strategy working over a few generations.
They have successfully reduced Sony from being bigger than all the rest put together to merely the largest minority, for now.

MS taking the US market this gen was probably not expected but is an enormous building block for them.

If the cycle stays similar to what has gone before then I think we have a brand new XBox to look forward to in late 2008/early 2009 (the mk1 XBox appeared in Nov 2001 and the XBox 360 May 2005).
That's not very far off.

I just don't see how Sony can recover this appalling strategic position (unless they kill PS3 early and rush their PS4 to catch up) as they are now totally out of cycle with MS.
Their very latest will always be only as good as the 'old' MS system and will always only just be maturing as Microsoft take the next gen leap forwards and the new Microsoft system appears.

The resident fanclub might hate to hear this but IMO Sony are in deep trouble......unless they can 'pull a Nintendo' and make very profitable moves that don't require the most expensive tech - cos Microsoft (being so vastly & enormously richer a company) are always going to out-spend and out-tech them .

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 07, 2007 17:04)

Originally posted by hughjars:

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I have to say I agree ChromeMud.

Sony are now a gen behind and the Microsoft strategy is working out very nicely for them.

IMO it was always intended to be a gradual strategy working over a few generations.
They have successfully reduced Sony from being bigger than all the rest put together to merely the largest minority, for now.

MS taking the US market this gen was probably not expected but is an enormous building block for them.

If the cycle stays similar to what has gone before then I think we have a brand new XBox to look forward to in late 2008/early 2009 (the mk1 XBox appeared in Nov 2001 and the XBox 360 May 2005).
That's not very far off.

I just don't see how Sony can recover this appalling strategic position (unless they kill PS3 early and rush their PS4 to catch up) as they are now totally out of cycle with MS.
Their very latest will always be only as good as the 'old' MS system and will always only just be maturing as Microsoft take the next gen leap forwards and the new Microsoft system appears.

The resident fanclub might hate to hear this but IMO Sony are in deep trouble......unless they can 'pull a Nintendo' and make very profitable moves that don't require the most expensive tech - cos Microsoft (being so vastly & enormously richer a company) are always going to out-spend and out-tech them .

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MS can take the gen only when theres no competition....the WII is already 1 million units from out selling them,the WII is pretty much going to lead the gen for the next 1-3 years with sony playing catch up,sony over estimated power and under estimated unit price and shot them self in both feet over it however sony should be able to ling to at least the 2nd position sales wise due to the simple fact it has Jp devs on its side.

Now if sony refuses to get the PS3 price to 500-600 USD world wide(currently 600-900) sony has pretty much made a a new N64,sony has to realize tis made a beast,the kinda of console MS made the kind that costs 2-6 billion in manageable debt in order to get it to penetrate the market and make a profit off software, sony is playing the game poorly.

Dont get me wrong MS aint prefect either and I think the WII could improve with full blown controller configuration.

Comment by: hughjars (Aug 07, 2007 17:07)

Originally posted by zippyDSM:

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Dont get me wrong MS aint prefect either and I think the WII could improve with full blown controller configuration.

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- Of course.

You don't need to say that to me zippy, I know you're a fair-minded person and aren't doing anything other than telling it as you see it.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 07, 2007 17:26)

Quote:

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Originally posted by zippyDSM:

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Dont get me wrong MS aint prefect either and I think the WII could improve with full blown controller configuration.

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- Of course.

You don't need to say that to me zippy, I know you're a fair-minded person and aren't doing anything other than telling it as you see it.

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well some people need to be reminded that a console above 500$ is stupid because world wide it can go as high as 300 more, market penetration is important and the main reason why MS can not secure the number 1 seat in a full scale console war because asia is the deciding factor no JP devs no asia no asia and you lose a lot of money on mantanace of the brand, however the PS3 has price issues because of it its going to slow sales and crate a longer running debt vrs a high but short debt.

as sloppy as MS has been I cant see sony being less sloppy with what they are doing with the PS3.

Of coarse I could be proven wrong next year and the PS3 sales 6+ million units ,altho I just don't see it I see it selling 2 or 3 million more units in the next 18ish months at best.

High end end gaming(or whats the word for new consoles that went into the gen for a year or 2 with debt) is about managed debt MS being a perfect example of it, if they were a Jp company that debt would be at the least halved even so sony is going to have to run at the least a 5 billion debt to really get this thing in homes if not they will gain losses slowly and keep them longer winding up with 4+ anyway and not penetrating the market.


Do you think MS could get more Jp devs interested if they setup a free or half off the cost of publishing a game then toss in translating/localizing(as much as I hate that word) ontop of it,maybe to offset cost get 5-10% of the first year or so profit from them?

I mean if MS wants asia there goign to have to drop 5-20 billoin to get the ball rolling in any meaningfully way.

Comment by: hughjars (Aug 07, 2007 18:45)

Originally posted by zippyDSM:

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Do you think MS could get more Jp devs interested?

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- I thin they'll stick to the tried and tested approach that has been practiced by everyone everywhere; they'll buy out if they have to.

Originally posted by zippyDSM:

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I mean if MS wants asia there goign to have to drop 5-20 billoin to get the ball rolling in any meaningfully way.

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- You're probably right that it's going to cost large stylee but when all's said and done that's how this is done and they can afford to keep on throwing their chips onto the table when everyone else is forced to fold and walk away or finished through lack of cash.

Rightly or wrongly that's, ultimately, how it works.....the only real question here is how serious are they and do they have the will to exercise the type of financial clout they most certainly have?

The way they just dropped a cool $1 billion on sorting the issues with the XBox 360 since inception has me thinking they really are going to go for this and they are taking no prisoners.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 07, 2007 18:58)

Quote:

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Originally posted by zippyDSM:

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Do you think MS could get more Jp devs interested?

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- I thin they'll stick to the tried and tested approach that has been practiced by everyone everywhere; they'll buy out if they have to.

Originally posted by zippyDSM:

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I mean if MS wants asia there goign to have to drop 5-20 billoin to get the ball rolling in any meaningfully way.

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- You're probably right that it's going to cost large stylee but when all's said and done that's how this is done and they can afford to keep on throwing their chips onto the table when everyone else is forced to fold and walk away or finished through lack of cash.

Rightly or wrongly that's, ultimately, how it works.....the only real question here is how serious are they and do they have the will to exercise the type of financial clout they most certainly have?

The way they just dropped a cool $1 billion on sorting the issues with the XBox 360 since inception has me thinking they really are going to go for this and they are taking no prisoners.

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Meh its more brand building and mataining in my eyes< I mean if they want to shake things up sale a Xbox/360 emulator make it vista only not fou vista only(then make it have a unquie key that requires a live account,online activation and such),that would spike sales and releave pressure off unit sales and help slow the losses generated by the refurb nightmare,they could a lot more if they wanted to improve,but as far as I can see they are maintaining the brand and deving micro transactions to alter bring to the PC (imanage buying updates or non critical service packs and add ons and such)

Comment by: ChromeMud (Aug 07, 2007 19:09)

Originally posted by hughjars:

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...The way they just dropped a cool $1 billion on sorting the issues with the XBox 360 since inception has me thinking they really are going to go for this and they are taking no prisoners.

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I agree with you there hughjars.Microsoft seem to be real serious in getting a foot hold in this hotly contested market and they are going all in.They tripped up with the reliability issues but that isn't holding them back and I bet they have a big road map to where they want to be in the future.Japan is Microsoft's Achilles' heel and they have it tough with Nintendo and Sony dominating their own backyard.The entertainment market is worth billions so there's no doubt that Microsoft wants to remain a part of it and will do what ever it takes to compete with the giants that are Nintendo and Sony.

Comment by: pmshah (Aug 09, 2007 23:53)

Quote:

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Originally posted by hughjars:

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...The way they just dropped a cool $1 billion on sorting the issues with the XBox 360 since inception has me thinking they really are going to go for this and they are taking no prisoners.

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I agree with you there hughjars.Microsoft seem to be real serious in getting a foot hold in this hotly contested market and they are going all in.They tripped up with the reliability issues but that isn't holding them back and I bet they have a big road map to where they want to be in the future.Japan is Microsoft's Achilles' heel and they have it tough with Nintendo and Sony dominating their own backyard.The entertainment market is worth billions so there's no doubt that Microsoft wants to remain a part of it and will do what ever it takes to compete with the giants that are Nintendo and Sony.

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M$ is always going to have a problem in Japan. It is the attitude of the general money spending people there. Their motto is simply My Flag, My country, My money, in that order. I know this first hand having dealt with the market from the photographic field.

Even in the days when Kodak was by far a superior product Fuji managed to capture the market, and that too at an even surprisingly higher price.

Same thing happened in PCs. Until NEC abasndoned their V32 cpu Intel could not make any inroads in that market.

When nationalistic feelings run so high it would be near impossible to beat the local guys unless you have a Fantastically good product.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 10, 2007 04:13)

Quote:

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Quote:

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Originally posted by hughjars:

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...The way they just dropped a cool $1 billion on sorting the issues with the XBox 360 since inception has me thinking they really are going to go for this and they are taking no prisoners.

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I agree with you there hughjars.Microsoft seem to be real serious in getting a foot hold in this hotly contested market and they are going all in.They tripped up with the reliability issues but that isn't holding them back and I bet they have a big road map to where they want to be in the future.Japan is Microsoft's Achilles' heel and they have it tough with Nintendo and Sony dominating their own backyard.The entertainment market is worth billions so there's no doubt that Microsoft wants to remain a part of it and will do what ever it takes to compete with the giants that are Nintendo and Sony.

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M$ is always going to have a problem in Japan. It is the attitude of the general money spending people there. Their motto is simply My Flag, My country, My money, in that order. I know this first hand having dealt with the market from the photographic field.

Even in the days when Kodak was by far a superior product Fuji managed to capture the market, and that too at an even surprisingly higher price.

Same thing happened in PCs. Until NEC abasndoned their V32 cpu Intel could not make any inroads in that market.

When nationalistic feelings run so high it would be near impossible to beat the local guys unless you have a Fantastically good product.

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MS needs to start off by dropping 5-20billoin,get devs to port and publish games on it by making it cheap for them to have a game published and localized doing so would start inroads to japan but also spike the worlds interested in the system because it has more games than its normal US PC style niche.

They might not win japan over but by expanding their games they would gain from it by being less of a niche, they them selfs have said they want to be more mainstream and in order to be more mainstream you need to have all kinds of devs work on your console..

Comment by: Hvygear (Aug 10, 2007 10:46)

Thats a bit ghey... i live in the U.K so no xbox support for me :( , when it comes to 360's i like to think i'm pretty devoted seeing as i've had 4 360's of which 2 have fried themselves...

Comment by: borhan9 (Aug 14, 2007 07:51)

To me this sounds like what Microsoft does whit their Windows products and sends it as a report to Microsoft over the internet.