News

Comment by: kishan73 (Jul 29, 2007 18:04)

Originally posted by DragonRM:

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Lol... the Playstation has always been about quantity over quality. They're just having a harder time with that now because of what the development costs are for the ps3. Which is generally why the games that are not system exclusive have looked better on 360. It's easier to make a multiplatform game look good on it. Oblivion was an exception but they had an extra year and a half to work on that version over the 360. Kind of the same with Ninja Gaiden. Great game... it's awesome... but at the same time it's a game that already had all the pre-development done from a previous system, and they spent most of the time streamlining. It's the same though for Virtua Fighter on the 360. That version looks better than the ps3 and has extra features because they had more time to work on it. In the end, given time and money, you could get the same game to not look or play any better on one system over the other. At this point the system power is having less and less to do with the quality of games... plus MS is probably gonna have another system out in 2-3 more years and with Sony not planning another... in the end I don't think it'll matter... getting closer to reaching hardware limitations that not too far in the future graphics quality will no longer be a difference between systems.

Also, I'm not biased towards any system... I play what's fun... and to say that only 5 of the 360 games are any good is just being fanboyish. There's good stuff out for each system though Sony still has some development bugs to work out and MS has their hardware issues(which are finally smoothing out).

Nintendo needs to release a few more high profile titles... most of the people I know only have WiiSports, Zelda, and maybe 1 or 2 other titles (not including virtual console downloads). But with the accessibility and price point, that's enough for Nintendo to sell tons of systems.

360 has had some bad releases recently as well but that's always how it seems to be around e3 for every company. There's a lot that's coming out in the next 2-4 months that's probably gonna have me spending more money on games than I did for the last year total. They like to show off the game and get a reaction before finally releasing it if it has big money potential.

Sony's biggest problem still comes down to dev support. Yeah they have the backing of some good JP brands... but they lost the exclusivity or totally lost a developer compared to ps2 when the devs first got their hands on the kits when they first came out. They really haven't been improved upon much and in the end it still costs way more to make a low profile 3rd party title on the ps3 than it does to make most of the mid to high profile games on the other systems.

In the end it still comes down to that more than half the games on any system are always going to be crap :) I'd hold off any judgment or final prediction on any company until after seeing what the holiday sales this year will be like since it's the first true year of competition between all 3 being on close to equal establishment and ground.

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Nice! I believe the next comment from the other guy should read, "touche!"

Comment by: djeazyg (Jul 29, 2007 18:15)

Originally posted by DragonRM:

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Lol... the Playstation has always been about quantity over quality. They're just having a harder time with that now because of what the development costs are for the ps3. Which is generally why the games that are not system exclusive have looked better on 360. It's easier to make a multiplatform game look good on it. Oblivion was an exception but they had an extra year and a half to work on that version over the 360. Kind of the same with Ninja Gaiden. Great game... it's awesome... but at the same time it's a game that already had all the pre-development done from a previous system, and they spent most of the time streamlining. It's the same though for Virtua Fighter on the 360. That version looks better than the ps3 and has extra features because they had more time to work on it. In the end, given time and money, you could get the same game to not look or play any better on one system over the other. At this point the system power is having less and less to do with the quality of games... plus MS is probably gonna have another system out in 2-3 more years and with Sony not planning another... in the end I don't think it'll matter... getting closer to reaching hardware limitations that not too far in the future graphics quality will no longer be a difference between systems.

Also, I'm not biased towards any system... I play what's fun... and to say that only 5 of the 360 games are any good is just being fanboyish. There's good stuff out for each system though Sony still has some development bugs to work out and MS has their hardware issues(which are finally smoothing out).

Nintendo needs to release a few more high profile titles... most of the people I know only have WiiSports, Zelda, and maybe 1 or 2 other titles (not including virtual console downloads). But with the accessibility and price point, that's enough for Nintendo to sell tons of systems.

360 has had some bad releases recently as well but that's always how it seems to be around e3 for every company. There's a lot that's coming out in the next 2-4 months that's probably gonna have me spending more money on games than I did for the last year total. They like to show off the game and get a reaction before finally releasing it if it has big money potential.

Sony's biggest problem still comes down to dev support. Yeah they have the backing of some good JP brands... but they lost the exclusivity or totally lost a developer compared to ps2 when the devs first got their hands on the kits when they first came out. They really haven't been improved upon much and in the end it still costs way more to make a low profile 3rd party title on the ps3 than it does to make most of the mid to high profile games on the other systems.

In the end it still comes down to that more than half the games on any system are always going to be crap :) I'd hold off any judgment or final prediction on any company until after seeing what the holiday sales this year will be like since it's the first true year of competition between all 3 being on close to equal establishment and ground.

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There's that word again......

Nothing Fanboy about it. I own both systems and enjoy both. I was being sarcastic when I said 5 games. There are more than 10 games for the PS3 so I was going with the sarcastic flow of things.
There aren't many games, in my opinion, that are worth playing on the 360. If you take in the fact that I don't like RPG's. Any other games I can get for the PS3. The games that are worth playing on the 360 are what made me buy it. But since then I've been really disappointed.

Comment by: djeazyg (Jul 29, 2007 18:18)

Quote:

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Nice! I believe the next comment from the other guy should read, "touche!"

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Ummmm..... Why? He didn't say anything that hasn't been said before. My opinion Vs. His. Big deal.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 29, 2007 18:23)

djeazyg
PSH is a virtual world drowned in marketing it will have its merits but for the most part is virtual life hanging with friends and buying stuff.

Comment by: xtago (Jul 30, 2007 06:54)

Quote:

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Actually Kojima has stated otherwise that the 360 can handle MGS now,the PS3 has only a small bit of physics power the 360 dose not have hardly enough to make it impossible to make for it, don't kid yourself with the bottle necks of each system they both are equals the PS3 games do tend to use HDR/Bloom to smooth and brighten games on the fly but sometimes its more a blruy visual soup all in all the only R E A L thing the PS3 has is BR and PSH and neither will help them much.

the industry is set in a DVD9 with nin being in a DVD5 thus most games can easily be put ion 2 or 3 discs sicne BR games use 10-18GB of filler to help speed issues of the BR.

PSH is cute but mostly a marketing scheme, gamers who only care about games will dismiss it as fluff,if I had a choice between a simple menu system and a extravagant virtual world setting I'll take the menu thank you.

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Lol, and where has Kojima said this, at E3 he has said MGS4 is PS3 only and it was his last MGS game, the same has been said at the 20th year party for MGS I think MGS online might be on 360 though, but not MGS4.

He has 3 MGS games coming out, MGS4, online, and one for the DS but it isn't MGS4.

Your telling me the PS3 with 8 CPUs can't compute physics yet on the Folding@home service 1 PS3 is has the same computing power as 200 PCs put together, and the 360 with it'll 3 general CPU's is better?

I'll let you know something Samford isn't releasing Folding@Home on the 360 due to it's poor processing power compared to the PS3, that isn't a game a packet of data for the PS3 has a time limit of 2 days the PS3 processes data faster than a GPU can as most times it does a packet in about 8 to 12 hours.

In terms of games there's around 5-6 games that can't be released on the 360 due to it's poor physics processing power, in other words these games can only be released on the PS3.

PS3 also has 1080P (FullHD) and now does 174khrz audio processing with audio upscaling for music CDs, these 2 options open up the PS3 to the high end HD player side if your wanting these in a HD video/audio player.

Home will be a major thing as it'll open up the system to different user markets, the people who want to have a way of showing things to family members from all over the world.

Beside the 3d aspect Home does have a menu system the PSP and Sony mobile phones and the Home website make no use of the PS3's 3D view of Home they all use a menu system so it has the 2 systems 3D walk around view and the menu system.

The Home website uses a blog or myspace type system to show pictures videos movies and music to people who don't use Home but still want to see things from with-in the Home network.

DVDs are for the 360, the current crop of PS3 games are mainly over the size of a DL DVD disk, they are between 8 to 12 gig the next crop are around the 25gig for lair and little big planet
MGS4 is 30gig, so it's larger than a HD-DVD disk.

So even if MGS4 was to come to the 360 you'd be looking at 2 HD-DVD disks or 4 DL DVD disks and Kojima has said MGS4 isn't a swap disk game.

There's no regions for PS3 games.

BR drive would be reading around the 12meg or more mark even at 2x spin, there's a news story about the 2x BR drives read faster than 7200rpm HDDs.

You really need to stop comparing the PS3 to the 360 the 360 is simply a upgraded PC wraped in plastic that causes it to over heat and break down, where as the PS3 was designed to deal with the problems of disk sizes and typical processing problems after a few years.

The 360 would most likly be hitting it's peak now, and be sliding down the other side basicly 2 years after it was released.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 30, 2007 09:33)

Quote:

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Quote:

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Actually Kojima has stated otherwise that the 360 can handle MGS now,the PS3 has only a small bit of physics power the 360 dose not have hardly enough to make it impossible to make for it, don't kid yourself with the bottle necks of each system they both are equals the PS3 games do tend to use HDR/Bloom to smooth and brighten games on the fly but sometimes its more a blruy visual soup all in all the only R E A L thing the PS3 has is BR and PSH and neither will help them much.

the industry is set in a DVD9 with nin being in a DVD5 thus most games can easily be put ion 2 or 3 discs sicne BR games use 10-18GB of filler to help speed issues of the BR.

PSH is cute but mostly a marketing scheme, gamers who only care about games will dismiss it as fluff,if I had a choice between a simple menu system and a extravagant virtual world setting I'll take the menu thank you.

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Lol, and where has Kojima said this, at E3 he has said MGS4 is PS3 only and it was his last MGS game, the same has been said at the 20th year party for MGS I think MGS online might be on 360 though, but not MGS4.

He has 3 MGS games coming out, MGS4, online, and one for the DS but it isn't MGS4.

Your telling me the PS3 with 8 CPUs can't compute physics yet on the Folding@home service 1 PS3 is has the same computing power as 200 PCs put together, and the 360 with it'll 3 general CPU's is better?

I'll let you know something Samford isn't releasing Folding@Home on the 360 due to it's poor processing power compared to the PS3, that isn't a game a packet of data for the PS3 has a time limit of 2 days the PS3 processes data faster than a GPU can as most times it does a packet in about 8 to 12 hours.

In terms of games there's around 5-6 games that can't be released on the 360 due to it's poor physics processing power, in other words these games can only be released on the PS3.

PS3 also has 1080P (FullHD) and now does 174khrz audio processing with audio upscaling for music CDs, these 2 options open up the PS3 to the high end HD player side if your wanting these in a HD video/audio player.

Home will be a major thing as it'll open up the system to different user markets, the people who want to have a way of showing things to family members from all over the world.

Beside the 3d aspect Home does have a menu system the PSP and Sony mobile phones and the Home website make no use of the PS3's 3D view of Home they all use a menu system so it has the 2 systems 3D walk around view and the menu system.

The Home website uses a blog or myspace type system to show pictures videos movies and music to people who don't use Home but still want to see things from with-in the Home network.

DVDs are for the 360, the current crop of PS3 games are mainly over the size of a DL DVD disk, they are between 8 to 12 gig the next crop are around the 25gig for lair and little big planet
MGS4 is 30gig, so it's larger than a HD-DVD disk.

So even if MGS4 was to come to the 360 you'd be looking at 2 HD-DVD disks or 4 DL DVD disks and Kojima has said MGS4 isn't a swap disk game.

There's no regions for PS3 games.

BR drive would be reading around the 12meg or more mark even at 2x spin, there's a news story about the 2x BR drives read faster than 7200rpm HDDs.

You really need to stop comparing the PS3 to the 360 the 360 is simply a upgraded PC wraped in plastic that causes it to over heat and break down, where as the PS3 was designed to deal with the problems of disk sizes and typical processing problems after a few years.

The 360 would most likly be hitting it's peak now, and be sliding down the other side basicly 2 years after it was released.

---

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/676/676685p1.html
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/16/kojima...n-the-xbox-360/

BTW the coding advancement on the 360 is outpacing the current level of power on the PS3 and coding advancement for the PS3 because of its hellish architecture,sure hardware wise its a few rungs up on the ladder but the 360 has managed to stay just one under it.

Comment by: anubis66 (Jul 30, 2007 14:06)

but limitation are exactly that. and the 360 is reaching alot of theirs pretty quickly, or relatively soon. not to mention its one year head start, no wonder they know it a little better. but sony is pushing hard on the middleware and support so that these devs can suck it up and quit whining about learning something new.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 30, 2007 16:07)

Originally posted by anubis66:

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but limitation are exactly that. and the 360 is reaching alot of theirs pretty quickly, or relatively soon. not to mention its one year head start, no wonder they know it a little better. but sony is pushing hard on the middleware and support so that these devs can suck it up and quit whining about learning something new.

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But thats the problem the industry is not adapting multi core/multi architecture like it should,thats why the 360 will be getting some of the best advancements while the PS3 will faced with a uphill battle even if its its started out higher.

The PS3 is going to have a hell of a time in the short run after 2 or 3 years it should be doing well but until price stays below 500 and the libary expands more the PS3 will be a niche of high end JP games, with the 360 will remain a niche of medium high end PC style games.

Comment by: kishan73 (Jul 30, 2007 19:41)

Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Actually Kojima has stated otherwise that the 360 can handle MGS now,the PS3 has only a small bit of physics power the 360 dose not have hardly enough to make it impossible to make for it, don't kid yourself with the bottle necks of each system they both are equals the PS3 games do tend to use HDR/Bloom to smooth and brighten games on the fly but sometimes its more a blruy visual soup all in all the only R E A L thing the PS3 has is BR and PSH and neither will help them much.

the industry is set in a DVD9 with nin being in a DVD5 thus most games can easily be put ion 2 or 3 discs sicne BR games use 10-18GB of filler to help speed issues of the BR.

PSH is cute but mostly a marketing scheme, gamers who only care about games will dismiss it as fluff,if I had a choice between a simple menu system and a extravagant virtual world setting I'll take the menu thank you.

---

Lol, and where has Kojima said this, at E3 he has said MGS4 is PS3 only and it was his last MGS game, the same has been said at the 20th year party for MGS I think MGS online might be on 360 though, but not MGS4.

He has 3 MGS games coming out, MGS4, online, and one for the DS but it isn't MGS4.

Your telling me the PS3 with 8 CPUs can't compute physics yet on the Folding@home service 1 PS3 is has the same computing power as 200 PCs put together, and the 360 with it'll 3 general CPU's is better?

I'll let you know something Samford isn't releasing Folding@Home on the 360 due to it's poor processing power compared to the PS3, that isn't a game a packet of data for the PS3 has a time limit of 2 days the PS3 processes data faster than a GPU can as most times it does a packet in about 8 to 12 hours.

In terms of games there's around 5-6 games that can't be released on the 360 due to it's poor physics processing power, in other words these games can only be released on the PS3.

PS3 also has 1080P (FullHD) and now does 174khrz audio processing with audio upscaling for music CDs, these 2 options open up the PS3 to the high end HD player side if your wanting these in a HD video/audio player.

Home will be a major thing as it'll open up the system to different user markets, the people who want to have a way of showing things to family members from all over the world.

Beside the 3d aspect Home does have a menu system the PSP and Sony mobile phones and the Home website make no use of the PS3's 3D view of Home they all use a menu system so it has the 2 systems 3D walk around view and the menu system.

The Home website uses a blog or myspace type system to show pictures videos movies and music to people who don't use Home but still want to see things from with-in the Home network.

DVDs are for the 360, the current crop of PS3 games are mainly over the size of a DL DVD disk, they are between 8 to 12 gig the next crop are around the 25gig for lair and little big planet
MGS4 is 30gig, so it's larger than a HD-DVD disk.

So even if MGS4 was to come to the 360 you'd be looking at 2 HD-DVD disks or 4 DL DVD disks and Kojima has said MGS4 isn't a swap disk game.

There's no regions for PS3 games.

BR drive would be reading around the 12meg or more mark even at 2x spin, there's a news story about the 2x BR drives read faster than 7200rpm HDDs.

You really need to stop comparing the PS3 to the 360 the 360 is simply a upgraded PC wraped in plastic that causes it to over heat and break down, where as the PS3 was designed to deal with the problems of disk sizes and typical processing problems after a few years.

The 360 would most likly be hitting it's peak now, and be sliding down the other side basicly 2 years after it was released.

---

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/676/676685p1.html
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/16/kojima...n-the-xbox-360/

BTW the coding advancement on the 360 is outpacing the current level of power on the PS3 and coding advancement for the PS3 because of its hellish architecture,sure hardware wise its a few rungs up on the ladder but the 360 has managed to stay just one under it.

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This is to Zippy & the rest of all Sony FanBoys,

I'm going to cut & paste information from a "computer/IT website" and then I'm going to provide the link so that you, and other readers, can read it for youselves.

"CPU
The Xbox 360 processor was designed to give game developers the power that they actually need, in an easy to use form. The Cell processor has impressive streaming floating-point power that is of limited use for games.

The majority of game code is a mixture of integer, floating-point, and vector math, with lots of branches and random memory accesses. This code is best handled by a general purpose CPU with a cache, branch predictor, and vector unit.

The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming.

Xbox 360 has three general purpose CPU cores. The Cell processor has only one.

Xbox 360's CPUs has vector processing power on each CPU core. Each Xbox 360 core has 128 vector registers per hardware thread, with a dot product instruction, and a shared 1-MB L2 cache. The Cell processor's vector processing power is mostly on the seven DSPs.

Dot products are critical to games because they are used in 3D math to calculate vector lengths, projections, transformations, and more. The Xbox 360 CPU has a dot product instruction, where other CPUs such as Cell must emulate dot product using multiple instructions.

Cell's streaming floating-point work is done on its seven DSP processors. Since geometry processing is moved to the GPU, the need for streaming floating-point work and other DSP style programming in games has dropped dramatically.

Just like with the PS2's Emotion Engine, with its missing L2 cache, the Cell is designed for a type of game programming that accounts for a minor percentage of processing time.

Sony's CPU is ideal for an environment where 12.5% of the work is general-purpose computing and 87.5% of the work is DSP calculations. That sort of mix makes sense for video playback or networked waveform analysis, but not for games. In fact, when analyzing real games one finds almost the opposite distribution of general purpose computing and DSP calculation requirements. A relatively small percentage of instructions are actually floating point. Of those instructions which are floating-point, very few involve processing continuous streams of numbers. Instead they are used in tasks like AI and path-finding, which require random access to memory and frequent branches, which the DSPs are ill-suited to.

Based on measurements of running next generation games, only ~10-30% of the instructions executed are floating point. The remainders of the instructions are load, store, integer, branch, etc. Even fewer of the instructions executed are streaming floating point—probably ~5-10%. Cell is optimized for streaming floating-point, with 87.5% of its cores good for streaming floating-point and nothing else.

Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.

GPU
Even ignoring the bandwidth limitations the PS3's GPU is not as powerful as the Xbox 360's GPU.

The 51 billions dot products per cycle were listed on a summary slide of total graphics system performance and are assumed to include the Cell processor. Sony's calculations seem to assume that the Cell can do a dot product per cycle per DSP, despite not having a dot product instruction.

However, using Sony's claim, 7 dot products per cycle * 3.2 GHz = 22.4 billion dot products per second for the CPU. That leaves 51 - 22.4 = 28.6 billion dot products per second that are left over for the GPU. That leaves 28.6 billion dot products per second / 550 MHz = 52 GPU ALU ops per clock.

It is important to note that if the RSX ALUs are similar to the GeForce 6800 ALUs then they work on vector4s, while the Xbox 360 GPU ALUs work on vector5s. The total programmable GPU floating point performance for the PS3 would be 52 ALU ops * 4 floats per op *2 (madd) * 550 MHz = 228.8 GFLOPS which is less than the Xbox 360's 48 ALU ops * 5 floats per op * 2 (madd) * 500 MHz= 240 GFLOPS.

With the number of transistors being slightly larger on the Xbox 360 GPU (330M) it's not surprising that the total programmable GFLOPs number is very close.

The PS3 does have the additional 7 DSPs on the Cell to add more floating point ops for graphics rendering, but the Xbox 360's three general purpose cores with custom D3D and dot product instructions are more customized for true graphics related calculations.

The 6800 Ultra has 16 pixel pipes, 6 vertex pipes, and runs at 400 MHz. Given the RSX's 2x better than a 6800 Ultra number and the higher frequency of the RSX, one can roughly estimate that it will have 24 pixel shading pipes and 4 vertex shading pipes (fewer vertex shading pipes since the Cell DSPs will do some vertex shading). If the PS3 GPU keeps the 6800 pixel shader pipe co-issue architecture which is hinted at in Sony's press release, this again gives it 24 pixel pipes* 2 issued per pipe + 4 vertex pipes = 52 dot products per clock in the GPU.

If the RSX follows the 6800 Ultra route, it will have 24 texture samplers, but when in use they take up an ALU slot, making the PS3 GPU in practice even less impressive. Even if it does manage to decouple texture fetching from ALU co-issue, it won't have enough bandwidth to fetch the textures anyways.

For shader operations per clock, Sony is most likely counting each pixel pipe as four ALU operations (co-issued vector+scalar) and a texture operation per pixel pipe and 4 scalar operations for each vector pipe, for a total of 24 * (4 + 1) + (4*4) = 136 operations per cycle or 136 * 550 = 74.8 GOps per second.

Given the Xbox 360 GPU's multithreading and balanced design, you really can't compare the two systems in terms of shading operations per clock. However, the Xbox 360's GPU can do 48 ALU operations (each can do a vector4 and scalar op per clock), 16 texture fetches, 32 control flow operations, and 16 programmable vertex fetch operations with tessellation per clock for a total of 48*2 + 16 + 32 + 16 = 160 operations per cycle or 160 * 500 = 80 GOps per second.

Overall, the automatic shader load balancing, memory export features, programmable vertex fetching, programmable triangle tesselator, full rate texture fetching in the vertex shader, and other "well beyond shader model 3.0" features of the Xbox 360 GPU should also contribute to overall rendering performance.

Bandwidth
The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s.

The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.

Why does the Xbox 360 have such an extreme amount of bandwidth? Even the simplest calculations show that a large amount of bandwidth is consumed by the frame buffer. For example, with simple color rendering and Z testing at 550 MHz the frame buffer alone requires 52.8 GB/s at 8 pixels per clock. The PS3's memory bandwidth is insufficient to maintain its GPU's peak rendering speed, even without texture and vertex fetches.

The PS3 uses Z and color compression to try to compensate for the lack of memory bandwidth. The problem with Z and color compression is that the compression breaks down quickly when rendering complex next-generation 3D scenes.

HDR, alpha-blending, and anti-aliasing require even more memory bandwidth. This is why Xbox 360 has 256 GB/s bandwidth reserved just for the frame buffer. This allows the Xbox 360 GPU to do Z testing, HDR, and alpha blended color rendering with 4X MSAA at full rate and still have the entire main bus bandwidth of 22.4 GB/s left over for textures and vertices.

CONCLUSION
When you break down the numbers, Xbox 360 has provably more performance than PS3. Keep in mind that Sony has a track record of over promising and under delivering on technical performance. The truth is that both systems pack a lot of power for high definition games and entertainment.

However, hardware performance, while important, is only a third of the puzzle. Xbox 360 is a fusion of hardware, software and services. Without the software and services to power it, even the most powerful hardware becomes inconsequential. Xbox 360 games—by leveraging cutting-edge hardware, software, and services—will outperform the PlayStation 3."

This is the whole article. You can read for yourself at this link here: http://www.itvidya.com/playstation_3_vs_xbox_360

I love hearing comments from people, but please, have some sort of link/website/photo to support your claims. I look forward to your responses.
[img]http://www.slide.com/s/YmMdLyvG7D9Wqpwej7OxnplPB-TBJ3PH?referrer=hlnk">

Comment by: djeazyg (Jul 30, 2007 21:04)

Tell you what.........
I'm gonna go play instead of debating every little detail. Heavenly Sword DEMO just downloaded and I want to see if it's as great as it looks.
Truth is this war is not going to be over for a long time. All this technical crap means nothing in the long run. Only the consumers will decide what system will come out on top and they don't care what’s inside. They only care about what games there are. If what's inside was so important the PS2 wouldn't still be outselling both the 360 and PS3. 360 got a head start and that’s all the advantage they really have. Yes the 360 is cheaper but you risk being part of the RED RING 30%. Each system has great games and each system has exclusives so pick the ones you like and have fun.

You want people to show proof? That’s funny.
I can go find a few articles that say the PS3 kicks the 360's ass. Hell, I can write one myself. Means nothing and I'm not going to waste my time.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 30, 2007 21:15)

kishan73

Its sometimes hard to post ""facts" when they are mostly rumors and opinions I try and keep up with links but I am so fing disorganized its not funny,I place my claims on the head of everythign I read and mostly it follows the "middle" road and pisses of the most people off so if it annoys all the fan boys to no end it has to be half way right.

More 360 V PS3 with favor to the 360 more or less.

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6162742/
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/xbox360_ps3_wii.asp
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Q4.06/7...FD13A883A2.html
http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-348-1.htm

Now lets use the gamespot as a basis for my current opinion of the the rival systems
Speed Carbon PS3 hands down:lesser bloom and fog effect than the 360

COD 360 hands down Bloom X2 gamma issues?

Madden 360 (no shadow PS3 oops?)

Marvel 360 looks better (Bloom effect X2 lower resolution on PS3?)

NBA 2K same (they say frame rate are better on 360)

Fight Night Round 3 umm they must have these revered the PS3 has the extra bloom effects.....

Tony Hawk's Project 8 yup bloom me over

Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07 bluur kills detail

It seems they are over using bloom of coarse these games are made out of the box for 1080p so they might not look best at 720p, PS3 games are generally made to run at 60FPS at 1080p ,while I chuckle at the 60FPS statements the PS3 supports more Hdef games the PS3 itself has practically launched early looking at the 360's dismal launch and the PS3s the PS3 will take a year to get to a point where it can bear its fangs at the 360.

When it comes to features the 360 has more compabiltiabity with the PC (streaming movies and such) as well as other net friendly media the PS3 can do as well as the PS3 has the added bonus of BR movies...if you call that added value LOL.

Basically what I been saying is true the 360 is solid built(for games,hardware design is poorly cooled) and is a ok "media center"(minus the 30% fail rate) its coding will advance smoothly because its architecture is PC like, the PS3 on the other hand was made for Hdef gaming and Hdef media so it starts out a couple rungs above the 360 however because of its architecture it will evolve slower even so next year will be the time to compare them and I think they will more or less be close some games will run better on the other and some wont hardly enough to proclaim X works better than Y.

In the end theres something no one wants to admit 2, japan and Asia hate the 360 and without a foundation there the 360 is doomed to be number 2 or 3 and if the WII can keep its assault on non gamers up and the highly packed populaces in Asia get a price drop for the PS3 the 360 will be back to hocking PC games to the masses like the Xbox did.

But heres a more likely scenario the takes 20 milloin untis by the end of next year leaving Sony and MS with equal parts of the pie so by the end of next year remove 30% of MSs 10+million sales so that leaves 7 million if the PS3 sales about 4-6 million more in 08 that makes them dead even (MS at 7-9 sony at 7-9) and the games they have basically split down gamings core your PC style FPS/action games for the 360 your Jp RPG and action games for the PS3 the pie is now roughly 45 WII 27 PS3 27 360

Despite what others say there is no way the 360 can maintain itself at number 1 in a environment with both Nin and Sony out and about(For right now the 360 is the best "mainstream" gaming system with a target group on both casual and hard core gamers and on wide and varied online system you can't easily scoff at the progress it has made),the WII is almost at 10milloin and its not even been a year yet and the PS3 is no worse than the 360 was (altho can someone find world wide numbers for the 360 7 months after launch ).

ack edit in red 0-o it makes me eyes bleed ><

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 30, 2007 21:21)

Originally posted by djeazyg:

---

Tell you what.........
I'm gonna go play instead of debating every little detail. Heavenly Sword DEMO just downloaded and I want to see if it's as great as it looks.
Truth is this war is not going to be over for a long time. All this technical crap means nothing in the long run. Only the consumers will decide what system will come out on top and they don't care what’s inside. They only care about what games there are. If what's inside was so important the PS2 wouldn't still be outselling both the 360 and PS3. 360 got a head start and that’s all the advantage they really have. Yes the 360 is cheaper but you risk being part of the RED RING 30%. Each system has great games and each system has exclusives so pick the ones you like and have fun.

You want people to show proof? That’s funny.
I can go find a few articles that say the PS3 kicks the 360's ass. Hell, I can write one myself. Means nothing and I'm not going to waste my time.

---

can you link me to thos?
it'd be a fun read non the less,I had one where it said it all boils down to the 360 being able to do more graphics out of the box but the PS3 could do more physics ,if you can PM me them or post them here if you want,I dont mind either way I would like some more "comparison" reading ^^

I think the PS3 will shine in 2+ years thats normally when a system hits its strides anyway but at the cost I will put it to the end of my list,I am more invested(interested) in a WII,I will get a 360 when I can confirm what the 64nm SKU is :P
me wants a non easy bake oven 360 :P

Comment by: xtago (Jul 31, 2007 09:17)

the Xbox360 CPU is a 3 core chip from Intel, no need to make out like it's got something special about it for games, it's basicly a 1 off core2duo or AMD X2 CPU with an extra core in it to make the 3 CPUs.

The Cell is a PowerPC CPU, these run 64bit or higher and make use of Risc cores for the super number crunching.

IBM have been making PowerPC chips for about 15 years now, PowerPC CPUs have always been much faster than the Intel or AMD chip offerings due to the Risc part of the PowerPC chip.

The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming.

Quite interesting you say this because the multi core CPUs from Inetel are based around the PowerPC multiple core CPUs, PowerPC CPUs have pretty much always had multi-cores in them but as I siad before they have special extras like Risc cores which process numbers like a super computer does.

Do you know what a Risc chip is? they have been around a long long time also made by IBM, they make intels and AMD chips look like cave man CPUs, back in the 80's they'd be clocking the 1gigahertz speeds when the 386 and 486 where just coming of age.

Risc chips and PowerPC chips don't process code as per the Intel and AMD CPUs that is old hat and slow, you give them code and it tries to work out what your meaning so before you finsh giving it all the code and it comes up with an answer to the question, if it's correct well it's straight onto the next question. This makes for a much faster processing CPU but if it's wrong it'll have to re-do it but this doesn't mean much as usually risc chips are around 90% correct for each bit of code run through them.

The Cell CPU doesn't have 1 general CPU it has 8 each one can do a seprate task as per the xbox360 CPU only that it does 8 or more tasks in the one process where as the xbox 360 will only do 3 tasks and must complete the task before it can move on to the next one this is the problem with intel and AMD CPUs they can be laboured very easy which slowing the processing down.

This is why Intel have been releasing hypertreaded multi-cored CPUs because the hyperthreading should allow 1 CPU to process 2 or more processes and they hope this will speed them up but it's still all done the old way so if something goes wrong you have to go through it again.

The Cell chip won't have this problem as
1st core can just do pyshics processing
2nd core does game processing
3rd core does 3D object handling
4th core can handle sound
5th core can handle processing of controllers
6th core handle network processing
7th core data processing to/from the GPU
8th core can do nothing

the seprate GPU would just be processing and handling pixels that get pumped out to the HDMI cable.

and that is how it works in real life.

Xbox 360's CPUs has vector processing power on each CPU core. Each Xbox 360 core has 128 vector registers per hardware thread, with a dot product instruction, and a shared 1-MB L2 cache. The Cell processor's vector processing power is mostly on the seven DSPs.

This part is quite funny to me, because you have 3 cores handling vectors and then you have the Cell and it only handles vectors with 8 CPUs if coded for this.

Don't you find that so odd, that someone would be trying to push that as a good thing for the 360?

The Cell uses seprate memory pools for it's data holding, PowerPCs due to the risc part have no need for cache as they process data on the fly and only need to access it once and then process it then pump it out the door never to be looked at again, though that's simply the power of Risc chips over normal CPUs, they spend so little time on processing code that you get things done much quicker.

Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.

Ah but I suppose they do, because a lot of the PS3 games coming out make heavy use of pyshics Heavenly sword is one, pain another, and Japan has 2-3 pyshics heavy games, one so heavy that it uses 1 cell CPU just for that alone.

GPU
Even ignoring the bandwidth limitations the PS3's GPU is not as powerful as the Xbox 360's GPU.

The Xbox360 only outputs mainly SD but can do 720P images, the PS3 outputs HD only up to 1080P images.

the resolution of 720P is 1320x720
the resolution of 1080P is 1920x1080

P stands for progressive where the full frame is put up frame by frame, so at 1920x1080 you need a GPU able to do super high fill rates for a start.

the elite xbox360 only does 1080I which is 1920x1080 but the frames are interleaved so you will only be showed 540 lines per frame the lines are switched between each other for each frame shown, this can give a flicker effect that some people can not stand to see can also give headaches as well.

So the elite xbox360 at 1080I does smaller fillrates than the normal xbox360 at 720P.


It is important to note that if the RSX ALUs are similar to the GeForce 6800 ALUs

lol, Nvidia have said ages ago that the RSX is above the processing power of their top of the line cards that havn't been released yet.

to compare the RSX to a 6800 is just silly for a start due to to the fill rates required.

However, hardware performance, while important, is only a third of the puzzle. Xbox 360 is a fusion of hardware, software and services. Without the software and services to power it, even the most powerful hardware becomes inconsequential. Xbox 360 games—by leveraging cutting-edge hardware, software, and services—will outperform the PlayStation 3."

Pointless drivel.

The Xbox360 is a basic PC inside a plactic box.

The PS3 is a PowerPC cobined with the power of a super GPU from nvidia not released for a PC card as yet.

Want links start searching through IBM's website for PowerPC and Risc to get an idea of just how powerful these CPUs really are compared to inetl's and amd's CPUs.

Just remember IBM's R&D costs are above, what Intel make in money in total for 1 year probably AMD combined as well.

Comment by: djeazyg (Jul 31, 2007 15:03)

.......and like I said way in the beginning of this thread,,, When the Developers stop being lazy and start making games for the PS3 instead of porting the 360 games to the PS3 we will see what the system can do. Just like the PS2, in a year or so I predict it will make all the bashers and Tech Geeks "WOW I never thought it would do that". Just like the PS2.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 31, 2007 15:08)

Originally posted by djeazyg:

---

.......and like I said way in the beginning of this thread,,, When the Developers stop being lazy and start making games for the PS3 instead of porting the 360 games to the PS3 we will see what the system can do. Just like the PS2, in a year or so I predict it will make all the bashers and Tech Geeks "WOW I never thought it would do that". Just like the PS2.

---

thats why is going to take 2 or 3 years to get back on track.

Comment by: kishan73 (Jul 31, 2007 17:08)

Originally posted by xtago:

---

the Xbox360 CPU is a 3 core chip from Intel, no need to make out like it's got something special about it for games, it's basicly a 1 off core2duo or AMD X2 CPU with an extra core in it to make the 3 CPUs.

The Cell is a PowerPC CPU, these run 64bit or higher and make use of Risc cores for the super number crunching.

IBM have been making PowerPC chips for about 15 years now, PowerPC CPUs have always been much faster than the Intel or AMD chip offerings due to the Risc part of the PowerPC chip.

The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming.

Quite interesting you say this because the multi core CPUs from Inetel are based around the PowerPC multiple core CPUs, PowerPC CPUs have pretty much always had multi-cores in them but as I siad before they have special extras like Risc cores which process numbers like a super computer does.

Do you know what a Risc chip is? they have been around a long long time also made by IBM, they make intels and AMD chips look like cave man CPUs, back in the 80's they'd be clocking the 1gigahertz speeds when the 386 and 486 where just coming of age.

Risc chips and PowerPC chips don't process code as per the Intel and AMD CPUs that is old hat and slow, you give them code and it tries to work out what your meaning so before you finsh giving it all the code and it comes up with an answer to the question, if it's correct well it's straight onto the next question. This makes for a much faster processing CPU but if it's wrong it'll have to re-do it but this doesn't mean much as usually risc chips are around 90% correct for each bit of code run through them.

The Cell CPU doesn't have 1 general CPU it has 8 each one can do a seprate task as per the xbox360 CPU only that it does 8 or more tasks in the one process where as the xbox 360 will only do 3 tasks and must complete the task before it can move on to the next one this is the problem with intel and AMD CPUs they can be laboured very easy which slowing the processing down.

This is why Intel have been releasing hypertreaded multi-cored CPUs because the hyperthreading should allow 1 CPU to process 2 or more processes and they hope this will speed them up but it's still all done the old way so if something goes wrong you have to go through it again.

The Cell chip won't have this problem as
1st core can just do pyshics processing
2nd core does game processing
3rd core does 3D object handling
4th core can handle sound
5th core can handle processing of controllers
6th core handle network processing
7th core data processing to/from the GPU
8th core can do nothing

the seprate GPU would just be processing and handling pixels that get pumped out to the HDMI cable.

and that is how it works in real life.

Xbox 360's CPUs has vector processing power on each CPU core. Each Xbox 360 core has 128 vector registers per hardware thread, with a dot product instruction, and a shared 1-MB L2 cache. The Cell processor's vector processing power is mostly on the seven DSPs.

This part is quite funny to me, because you have 3 cores handling vectors and then you have the Cell and it only handles vectors with 8 CPUs if coded for this.

Don't you find that so odd, that someone would be trying to push that as a good thing for the 360?

The Cell uses seprate memory pools for it's data holding, PowerPCs due to the risc part have no need for cache as they process data on the fly and only need to access it once and then process it then pump it out the door never to be looked at again, though that's simply the power of Risc chips over normal CPUs, they spend so little time on processing code that you get things done much quicker.

Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.

Ah but I suppose they do, because a lot of the PS3 games coming out make heavy use of pyshics Heavenly sword is one, pain another, and Japan has 2-3 pyshics heavy games, one so heavy that it uses 1 cell CPU just for that alone.

GPU
Even ignoring the bandwidth limitations the PS3's GPU is not as powerful as the Xbox 360's GPU.

The Xbox360 only outputs mainly SD but can do 720P images, the PS3 outputs HD only up to 1080P images.

the resolution of 720P is 1320x720
the resolution of 1080P is 1920x1080

P stands for progressive where the full frame is put up frame by frame, so at 1920x1080 you need a GPU able to do super high fill rates for a start.

the elite xbox360 only does 1080I which is 1920x1080 but the frames are interleaved so you will only be showed 540 lines per frame the lines are switched between each other for each frame shown, this can give a flicker effect that some people can not stand to see can also give headaches as well.

So the elite xbox360 at 1080I does smaller fillrates than the normal xbox360 at 720P.


It is important to note that if the RSX ALUs are similar to the GeForce 6800 ALUs

lol, Nvidia have said ages ago that the RSX is above the processing power of their top of the line cards that havn't been released yet.

to compare the RSX to a 6800 is just silly for a start due to to the fill rates required.

However, hardware performance, while important, is only a third of the puzzle. Xbox 360 is a fusion of hardware, software and services. Without the software and services to power it, even the most powerful hardware becomes inconsequential. Xbox 360 games—by leveraging cutting-edge hardware, software, and services—will outperform the PlayStation 3."

Pointless drivel.

The Xbox360 is a basic PC inside a plactic box.

The PS3 is a PowerPC cobined with the power of a super GPU from nvidia not released for a PC card as yet.

Want links start searching through IBM's website for PowerPC and Risc to get an idea of just how powerful these CPUs really are compared to inetl's and amd's CPUs.

Just remember IBM's R&D costs are above, what Intel make in money in total for 1 year probably AMD combined as well.

---

**********************************************
Xtago,

Hey, I loved how you broke down the article I'd submitted and responded accordingly.

No one's doubting how powerful the PS3 is. It's just that, they've known what Microsoft was putting together for over a year ahead of time, which gave them an ample amount of time to create the "ultimate" techno-marvel device and I have yet to see anything better than the Xbox360. Also, let's say for a minute, that 3rd party developers are "lazy", well the games that Sony (1st party) developer games develope look the same. Shouldn't they be better? (play better, look better, take full advantage of my HDTV,Surround Sound, etc...) For the $ I've paid, I expect more.

You mentioned in your response that all PS3 games run 60 fps at 1080p? I find that hard to believe. Ninja Gaiden: Sigma maybe. Resistance arguably. I'd have to read it in a published article to believe it. 720p is the sweetspot for gaming. I'd like to say that a majority of games are made at 720p and then upconverted to 1080p. Also, I don't recall reading that the Xbox360 only can do 720p and the Elite can only do 1080i. Hell, some original xbox games did 1080i. Also, if you're playing a game/watching a movie on a 50" HDTV whether it's 720p or 1080p you won't be able to tell the difference. You'll only notice the diffence if you're watching an HDTV that's larger than 60". Now, who has a 60" 1080p HDTV? Maybe 3% of the world maybe? (haha!) The Xbox 360 will probably be replaced 3 to 4 years from now. People are saying that the life of the PS3 will last, what?, another 6 years or so 'cause of the awesome technology inside (cell, blu-ray, etc..) Yeah right, what electronic device used daily last that long anyhow? Plus, with technology advancing so rapidly, anything put out within the next few years will be obsolete by then. Sony will definately be creating another so called "spage age" device within the next few years just like Microsoft & Nintendo will. Differenc is, do you want to pay $400 or $700? Sure it's only $300 difference but do you have an extra $300 to throw in the wind EVERYTIME? Maybe you do but I don't. People can sit back and say the have the shiniest car on the block, but if you really can't drive it, what fun is it? Software development is always behind hardware. Microsoft has made a device that Software developers are able to pimp out to the max and make great games. I'm sorry, but I promise you, no matter how great console games can be, they'll NEVER look as great as the PC 'cause ALL CONSOLES are just knock off PC's anyway created during that time period only.

Also, I, myself, am only a gamer. I get my information from published articles writen by professionals who get their information from credible sources. I appreciate and adore your comments, but I can only hear them as just your opinion. Opionions are great, as I have just offered mine, but what I really want is, to know the truth. Why can't/haven't Sony lived up to what they say they where going to do? They had more than enough time. Why does everyone WANT to believe them so bad? 'Cause they made the PS2? Sure it's still profitable, 'cause those gamers don't wanna spend $700 on a console that doesn't even include a game. I say $700 'cause after tax it's close to $650 and then you have to spend close to $50 on a HDMI cable 'cause it doesn't come with one. Oh, and it doesn't come with a remote (another $30-$50) and it doesn't come with a headset (another $20 or so). Sure, the online service is free, but you get what you pay for.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 31, 2007 17:35)

the main success of the 360 is the PC'ness' of it th easy of coding is in part why everyone makes games for it however look at the launch titles that could not use it fully and look at the PS3 and its launch issues on a power standpoint the PS3 is going threw growing pains much like the 360 has done,the PS3 will shine in a couple years if sony is really digging in and helping devs it might even be sooner than that.

Both are monsters when it comes to power and the PS3 should take longer to polish but for greater results but in the end the games re what makes them and I do not see that changing the PS3 will have Jp rpgs,action and "other" titles that should propel its sales world wide the 360 has its PC style games from the US and the UK from a few RPGs to FPSs to action titles that no matter what may come should not rock the niche the Xbox brand is in but no matter how solid a niche is its still a niche and even sony will have hard time getting out of the trench its dug itself in.

Comment by: kishan73 (Jul 31, 2007 17:45)

Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:

---

the main success of the 360 is the PC'ness' of it th easy of coding is in part why everyone makes games for it however look at the launch titles that could not use it fully and look at the PS3 and its launch issues on a power standpoint the PS3 is going threw growing pains much like the 360 has done,the PS3 will shine in a couple years if sony is really digging in and helping devs it might even be sooner than that.

Both are monsters when it comes to power and the PS3 should take longer to polish but for greater results but in the end the games re what makes them and I do not see that changing the PS3 will have Jp rpgs,action and "other" titles that should propel its sales world wide the 360 has its PC style games from the US and the UK from a few RPGs to FPSs to action titles that no matter what may come should not rock the niche the Xbox brand is in but no matter how solid a niche is its still a niche and even sony will have hard time getting out of the trench its dug itself in.

---

*********************************************

Hey Zippy, check this out

Sony's being sued for stealing the Cell Processor technology. (haha!)
I wonder how much $ they're gonna have to pay. Sounds like it was a move out of desperation (haha!) Wow! I really hope it's not true.

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/10559.cfm

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 31, 2007 17:54)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:

---

the main success of the 360 is the PC'ness' of it th easy of coding is in part why everyone makes games for it however look at the launch titles that could not use it fully and look at the PS3 and its launch issues on a power standpoint the PS3 is going threw growing pains much like the 360 has done,the PS3 will shine in a couple years if sony is really digging in and helping devs it might even be sooner than that.

Both are monsters when it comes to power and the PS3 should take longer to polish but for greater results but in the end the games re what makes them and I do not see that changing the PS3 will have Jp rpgs,action and "other" titles that should propel its sales world wide the 360 has its PC style games from the US and the UK from a few RPGs to FPSs to action titles that no matter what may come should not rock the niche the Xbox brand is in but no matter how solid a niche is its still a niche and even sony will have hard time getting out of the trench its dug itself in.

---

*********************************************

Hey Zippy, check this out

Sony's being sued for stealing the Cell Processor technology. (haha!)
I wonder how much $ they're gonna have to pay. Sounds like it was a move out of desperation (haha!) Wow! I really hope it's not true.

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/10559.cfm

---

Made a comment there,it could be a simple contract paper work cock up but it could be money diggers meh 50/50 it goes away or gets selleted out of court, Sony(and MS for that matter) do have issues with taking liberties with IPs so its a toss up between oops or damn you cought me LOL

Comment by: djeazyg (Jul 31, 2007 19:46)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by djeazyg:

---

.......and like I said way in the beginning of this thread,,, When the Developers stop being lazy and start making games for the PS3 instead of porting the 360 games to the PS3 we will see what the system can do. Just like the PS2, in a year or so I predict it will make all the bashers and Tech Geeks "WOW I never thought it would do that". Just like the PS2.

---

thats why is going to take 2 or 3 years to get back on track.

---

I never said the PS3 will be king tomorrow. I said this was long from over.
Judging by your comments here and on other threads I can see you are still on the fence about which is the better investment. You seem to be leaning more to the 360 side but your still not sure. I'm talking to the ones that say "The PS3 sucks, it's garbage, nobody will ever buy it, it's weak, it's shit, the 360 is 100 times greater or stronger or faster, you wasted your money, Sony will fold tomorrow, all the games suck. Thats about 90% of people here. I like both systems. I just don't think the 360 deserves all the hype it gets. At the same time I think the PS3 gets a raw deal and under estimated.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 31, 2007 20:25)

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by djeazyg:

---

.......and like I said way in the beginning of this thread,,, When the Developers stop being lazy and start making games for the PS3 instead of porting the 360 games to the PS3 we will see what the system can do. Just like the PS2, in a year or so I predict it will make all the bashers and Tech Geeks "WOW I never thought it would do that". Just like the PS2.

---

thats why is going to take 2 or 3 years to get back on track.

---

I never said the PS3 will be king tomorrow. I said this was long from over.
Judging by your comments here and on other threads I can see you are still on the fence about which is the better investment. You seem to be leaning more to the 360 side but your still not sure. I'm talking to the ones that say "The PS3 sucks, it's garbage, nobody will ever buy it, it's weak, it's shit, the 360 is 100 times greater or stronger or faster, you wasted your money, Sony will fold tomorrow, all the games suck. Thats about 90% of people here. I like both systems. I just don't think the 360 deserves all the hype it gets. At the same time I think the PS3 gets a raw deal and under estimated.

---

When you look at from a investment/fun point of view I think the WII is it (I know I know) the main reason being price and stability of hardware once the 360 gets the 64NM units in stock the 360 would be well worth 300-400$ (but thats my personal max on any system from a control/frustration/marketing stand point the consoles are not made for me so I refuse to really go over 300 on any single item this can be true for the PC but consoles have changed from the mid/late 90s during that time all or most of the FP games had button mapping and other options to help make them play better on a console and what do we have now adays lazy ass devs putting 3 or 5 cookie cutter configs in and non of them I can relax and enjoy using)

Control issues aside the 360 while not as coherent in its Hdef tech as the PS3 is at least coherent with connectivity with the PC and general media it has a larger game lineup and the older games are cheaper making it the best "value" as a "gamer" its a obvious must get and for me since it has a 70$ KB&M adapter that puts it to number 2 console for me (7th gen GC was number 1 because of price metroid prime and zelda :P,PS2 was number 2 because of price and general game lineup,Xbox dead last for the same reason)

I have also found a another issue to dislike the xbox/360 over and thats lack of a cheat device,without the ability to re balance a game back to fun I am stuck between wanting to play and not wanting the frustration from lazy devs but even so the KB&M should help balance out my personal suck factor LOL

SP Cheating aside price and "value" make me want to get the WII then the 360 the PS3 I will get LAST because of price it has become like the Xbox to me over priced and over hyped it will deffinatly be worth gettign in a year or 2 when it stops floating lop sided (more/better games lower unit price).

Price really is important to me even tho I could afforded 800 a shot every 2 or 3 months or so LOL point is I see the PS3 as over priced it has no games and even if MGSX and FF1XXX where on it today I still would not be compelled to get it at that price ecspecaily since FF has gone down in quality sure it might be nice enough to dazzle the eyes of the young but I played through FF4 and FF6 where unique charatcers had command of the field and their equipment rock the gaming world now we have Jpop clones btch slapping each other on screen with tired and watered down skills and limp equipment....I have played to many games ><

Comment by: anubis66 (Jul 31, 2007 20:29)

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by djeazyg:

---

.......and like I said way in the beginning of this thread,,, When the Developers stop being lazy and start making games for the PS3 instead of porting the 360 games to the PS3 we will see what the system can do. Just like the PS2, in a year or so I predict it will make all the bashers and Tech Geeks "WOW I never thought it would do that". Just like the PS2.

---

thats why is going to take 2 or 3 years to get back on track.

---

I never said the PS3 will be king tomorrow. I said this was long from over.
Judging by your comments here and on other threads I can see you are still on the fence about which is the better investment. You seem to be leaning more to the 360 side but your still not sure. I'm talking to the ones that say "The PS3 sucks, it's garbage, nobody will ever buy it, it's weak, it's shit, the 360 is 100 times greater or stronger or faster, you wasted your money, Sony will fold tomorrow, all the games suck. Thats about 90% of people here. I like both systems. I just don't think the 360 deserves all the hype it gets. At the same time I think the PS3 gets a raw deal and under estimated.

---

agreed.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 31, 2007 20:36)

A quick somment,it blows my mind people are willing to spend 600+ on the PS3 as it is it has nothing to show for it and in a year or so it will be 100 or so less and might be worth at least the 500 same can be said abotu the 360 really *L* I guess the WII is why pay 250 for a 150$ system LOL

sorry sorry my mind is wondering ><

So far the only 360 game to get my full attention is Turok even tho the devs has pretty much dissed the old games (they enjoy the gamplay but not the fiction) thus why the new game is high tech army in dino world and not a normal Turok Hero in mystic dino world LOL

ok the caffeine is gettign to me :P(wonders off to play the autoshotgun he made for quake 4 still tweaking all the weapons.)

Comment by: djeazyg (Jul 31, 2007 20:59)

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I have also found a another issue to dislike the xbox/360 over and thats lack of a cheat device,without the ability to re balance a game back to fun I am stuck between wanting to play and not wanting the frustration from lazy devs but even so the KB&M should help balance out my personal suck factor LOL

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I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person that wants some help to get thru the harder games. I like a challenge as much as the next guy but there is challenge and then there is just plain ridiculously hard. Ninja Gaidan Sigma is one of those games. Played more than half way thru the game and now I’ve been working overtime and haven’t gotten to play for over a week. The game is so hard I don’t know if I should start over to get back in the groove or get frustrated trying to remember what the hell I was doing. Only to work more overtime and have to start over again. The last Devil May cry was so bad I never finished it.
I like the way you put that………I don’t want the game to just let me win, balance back to fun is exactly how I would put it.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 31, 2007 21:24)

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I have also found a another issue to dislike the xbox/360 over and thats lack of a cheat device,without the ability to re balance a game back to fun I am stuck between wanting to play and not wanting the frustration from lazy devs but even so the KB&M should help balance out my personal suck factor LOL

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I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person that wants some help to get thru the harder games. I like a challenge as much as the next guy but there is challenge and then there is just plain ridiculously hard. Ninja Gaidan Sigma is one of those games. Played more than half way thru the game and now I’ve been working overtime and haven’t gotten to play for over a week. The game is so hard I don’t know if I should start over to get back in the groove or get frustrated trying to remember what the hell I was doing. Only to work more overtime and have to start over again. The last Devil May cry was so bad I never finished it.
I like the way you put that………I don’t want the game to just let me win, balance back to fun is exactly how I would put it.

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Have you played DMC2? I put inf double jumps in and after the first level tried not to use more than 3 and OMG the game was hella fun with just alil bit of "improvement" jumping around in the air dougeing landing hits it was fun,I have played DMC3 a bit but I had to get a lens for my PS2 and rebuild another and kinda been distracted from PS2 gaming of late.

I really wish MS would stop dragging its feet over the cheat device ban(MS has stated it would sue hackers *rolls eyes*) to me its simple create a code thats the basis of a cheat device then sub this code out to 1 or 2 sub devs they can then build a cheat device off it and this cheat device because of the way it was setup up it would lock or limit online while this code runs would allow SP gamers to play with a cheat device at least MS could create a firmware based on this and then the device could see the code flags and not run online or such the same can be said for KB&M just a bit of work by MS and everyone could really enjoy the 360 not just the elistst pad guys and before someone starts in the KB&M vrs pad myth is just that a myth you will always have good and bad players no matter what control system you use.
At this point and time I would be happy to pay for live if I could use a cheat device and they then could track how its used since I will never use it for online since I am not a fan of online I will never have to worry abotu gettign in trouble with it they could at least offer it in some way but I see them using the old money and profit shcemes they refuse to look at things in a new way and innovate from there..

I also am annoyed at nintendo for no customized control options in litrealty anythign they have to offer I see cookie cutter BS everywhere I would really like to setup my own binds with the WII controls for any game I chose but they wont offer even a device to allow this.

Between the AR and CB you can find a few worth while codes for a game its a shame they have gotten so naziistic with thier codes hell AR has stopped letting people add codes to some of their AR, CB seems solid even tho they could lighten up on their code setup (I would like to put codes into a cb file then update my CB with the use of a USB device but they refuse to let you make a CB file so you are stuck with whatever they have or typing out codes the old fashioned way) I can understand the need to protect their IP but you piss off your consumers to much you wont have them anymore.

frankly I think its time console makers got in on the cheat device scene this way they can protect their online communities and gain rep with consumers what do you think?
At the least they could develop a level of protection that would allow cheat devices to work without effecting online games or stores.

hell I would even pay a buck to buy "cheats" for a game as long as the cheat are updated free of charge :P I mean really wheres the innovation in this Gdarn industry ><