News

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 12, 2006 14:43)

oofRome
right now this min thigns are not great for the 360 in 6+ months that can change.

it wont take much for MS to pull a sony and say the add on can do games.
that said an add on for HD DVD and HD DVD gaming will add 2-3 years to the 360s life span,but will devs jump on the HD DVD band wagon most likely...not.....

I have a brain...I think......
I fuzzy braind mew =0_o=
FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
"Music And Film Industry Association of America.."
"Hollywood the 4kids of comic moives."

Comment by: oofRome (Sep 12, 2006 16:31)

Quote:

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oofRome
right now this min thigns are not great for the 360 in 6+ months that can change.

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I disagree. Things have only been getting better for MS ever since sony delayed the spring 06 ps3 release.
Then sony dropped the price bomb at e3.
With the announced ps3 shortages, microsoft is poised to capitalize on it's second holiday season with little ps3 competition.
And there is still little information on ps3's online service, one of microsoft's real strengths.

The format war has barely started, and the general consensus is that Blu-ray just doesn't have the momentum it should. And now with this dvd-add on announced, you have another next gen system that can also be a cheap High-Def player.

Quote:

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but will devs jump on the HD DVD band wagon most likely...not.....

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What is this based off of?

There's no doubt in my mind that Sony can and will easily rebound from this year. But at the moment, Microsoft is in a great position.

Comment by: hughjars (Sep 12, 2006 18:29)

You got to laugh at the desperate believer fan-boy element.

All those strident claims to know and declaring this that and the other about their fav foreign manufacturer. Strange.

$ony or M$. $ome choice, huh? ;)

Did anyone else notice that this headline comes with a ? at the end of it?

Before getting too carried away it's surely worth bearing in mind that it's not like it's an official announcement, is it?

Maybe it's more like water testing - or how about a tease, raising an expectation only to come in lower to and please some people, hmmm?

I think those determined to imagine that a mere game machine is going to be the deciding factor in this ridiculous High Def DVD 'format war' (for either system of High Def DVD) are just fooling themselves.

Blu-ray is supposedly potentially the higher capacity system (but can't get the dual layer 50gb disc working outside the lab nevermind 100 or 200gb discs) but their player is almost twice the price of the HD DVD player

(and as for recorders!? Both are ridiculously priced but again Blu-ray to be grossly more expensive than HD DVD).

HD DVD has demonstrated 60gb (2 layer 15gb on 2 sided disc IIRC).

That's more than plenty for any credible HD movie application and even if it isn't to the limit of Blu-ray's capacity it is already way way more capacity than joe-public has right now and at a price that seems much more attractive.

It kind of reminds me of DAT, plenty of interesting technical bells and whistles but when it came down to it, so what?

There just wasn't enough to really attract the paying public at the asking price and it became a niche technical special for the professional studio and a handful of regretful early adopters and those just determined to be different.

Personally I would not be in the least bit surprised to see Blu-ray go down that path.

Comment by: MarkDogg1 (Sep 12, 2006 19:24)

point is blu ray wll win in the end meaning ps3 will beat out the 360 in the end.ps3 at 600.00 is high for most people,but the value overall,makes 600.00 looks cheap for what you are gettin for the ps3.ps3 easily a 2,000 system.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 12, 2006 20:10)

hughjars

true BR is buggy as hell sony jumped the gun to on the format war,but they are still in the best position to gain something from it.

MS has made mistake after mistake with HD DVD they could get into the gaming side of it but I am thinking they wont.

right now HD DVD has a leg up on BR witch is still being worked on.

In any case I wonder just whats ging to fill that PS3 BR game R:fall of man

MarkDogg1

yyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa *pats you little head* nice to live in a fan boys dream.

Comment by: Andrew691 (Sep 12, 2006 21:25)

The thing is, HD-DVD isnt critical to anything working yet so theres no real need for it. Bluray WONT be going anywhere anytime soon as its being carried by the PS3 and until the death of the PS3 BD will still at least be being used for games, thus it doesn't really lose.

The only thing im worrying about is that games will be made for the 360 (at 8.5gb limit) then just ported to the PS3 wasting alot of space and money.

Does anyone know if there is a PS3-DVD format?

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 12, 2006 21:30)

Andrew691

Uummm the PS3 can play CD and DVD games of the PS1 and PS2 so yes the PS3 will have DVD games,so far there is only ONE known BR game.

UUmmm HD DVD already has movies out and they are clearer than what BR can do,mostly because of MS's codec.

In all HD DVD is doing ok for movies and BR is still in the works.

Comment by: Andrew691 (Sep 12, 2006 21:42)

What i meant was an actual PS3 game format, because Sony have said that ALL games will be BD.

Yea the BD movies are currently below standard, because of codec choice, i believe they are still using MPEG-2 so standard DVD. When REAL BD HD movies are released it will only get better. With BD's extra space it doesnt need to be to reliant on its codec so much.

The whole triple layer hd-dvd/dvd thing looks to be very good for the HD-DVD team, as it can sell discs with the movie in both formats then people will buy the disc for SD, then may just try the HD copy of the movie, think its a great improvement and upgrade.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 12, 2006 21:47)

Andrew691

Sony LIES there is only 1 BR game so far.

Comment by: Andrew691 (Sep 12, 2006 22:28)

Yea everyone knows Sony if full of BS, i should have known better than to believe it but somewhere it was said by Sony that all ps3 games would be BD to combat piracy.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 12, 2006 22:33)

Andrew691

well the PS3 was going to do dual HDMI at 1080p so Sony has a tendency to overstate shit,in all the PS3 is ok but I don't have 600 to blow at once if I did meh 50/50 on getting it *L*

Comment by: tnarulz (Sep 13, 2006 05:43)

dual HDMI? LOL that's typical Sony for ya. So the stripped down version of PS3 won't have HDMI, what will that mean for the person who goes to Wal Mart and gets a cheaper HDTV then you can get anywhere else, decides their budget doesn't allow for the more expensive version of PS3 but wants to try and watch Blu Ray movies on it.

Also the games are supposed to be Blu Ray to prevent piracy, um are all the anti piracy measures going to be on the disc or will that depend partially on HDMI too?

Comment by: tycobb (Sep 13, 2006 07:23)

Quote:

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Andrew691
Sony LIES there is only 1 BR game so far.

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No. All the ps3 games are on bluray NOT just 1.At least the last time I heard it was.Resistance is the only one reported at those high file sizes but they will still be on bluray.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 13, 2006 11:30)

tycobb
wait....they are going to make all the PS3 games BR but so far R:FOM is the only one to use more than 13GB?
0_o
no wonder everyones confused ><

can you give my a link to some hard info? I been looking and Resistance is the only game I can find.

I have a brain...I think......
I fuzzy braind mew =0_o=
FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
"Music And Film Industry Association of America.."
"Hollywood the 4kids of comic moives."

Comment by: hughjars (Sep 13, 2006 12:28)

I see folks just can't let go of the idea that a mere games machine and the 'nth degree' of unnecessary capacity for future games is going to be the deciding factor in this.

I think some folks could do with a reality check; it isn't.

The fact that High Def DVD is split between 2 formats is what is going to hold both back mightily and a games console with *whoever*'s logo on it makes no difference to that.

Just as PS2 did not become the 'main DVD player' in any home I know of so, IMO, PS3 will not either.

(nevermind the quality issue, PS2 didn't exactly inspire as a quality DVD machine, does it?)

IMO it will all be decided when the machines become available at a mass-market friendly £100- 200 price point (and HD DVD is the front-runner for getting there soonest, by a country mile).

But just watch the consumer take their time over this.

My bet is there will be no hurry to move either way (and this stupid format war just entrenches this further).

......and what's with this idea that any game seriously is going to 'need' more capacity than a disc which can already hold a full-length Holywood movie in HD (and all the extras they insist on cramming in these days)?

To say Blu-ray is a plus for gaming is a bit like claiming a double-decker bus is a plus for motoring because, even though no-one is making use or even about to make use of it, the extra space will come in handy some day.

Probably.

That might be a fair point, in theory, but if you never truely need or use it then what's the point of all the extra costs it brings with it?

In any case surely the only way that will ever be remotely approaching 'true' is if they cram even more boring FMV cr@p into games?

Frankly I could care less either way but the clamour of one particular side in this is ridiculous and at odds with the market reality.

Of the 2 I'd say HD DVD is in a far better position because -

1) the quality is proven and consistently excellent,

2) the larger existing user base,

3) the likelihood of that user base being vastly expanded as it becomes an affordable PC component (nevermind the XBox 360 stuff) well supportd by MS and every other games manufacturer,

4) it already offer a huge increase in storage capacity compared to existing device

5) There are less DRM and region coding issues with HD DVD and

6) it's enormous price advantage.

Half the price of the competitor is not to be dismissed lightly particularly when the competitor is only offering a theoretical storage advantage which was already boosted hugely by the HD DVD system.

Still, no doubt those who insist on seeing the PS3 as the salvation of all mankind will continue much as before.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 13, 2006 17:58)

Andrew691

Meh I cant keep up with all the mis infermation and the voices in my head *L*

Sorry it seems Sony dose plan on making all PS3 games BR this is a anti copy measure not a size measure.

Altho in time it will give the PS3 a edge but that dose not mean if they will use it.

hughjars

I see your point but I have to say he PS3 is jump starting the new format and its cheaper but with that said where are the BR movies MS already has a leg out the door,sure theres going to be a few neck and neck runings before a winner is declared but the PS3 dose has the advantage and potential the 360 dose not have dose this mean they will actually use its potential to the fullest....I don't see the SIZE gimmick becoming NOT A GIMMICK for at least 2 years and then by that time will be having more WHOLE games,games that are at the least a bit longer,and have more voice acting in them I am playing Dragon Quest 8 right now and some what amazed that the VAing is good but 8 ours in theres barely any of it 0-o sure theres a good bit in the beginning but once you hit the 2nd town the VAing almost vanishes,size will matter in time but only once the devs are willing to go that extra mile to use it.

I got this feeling R:FOM will be neat but it wont be any longer/larger than any other fps since 05.

the trick is they can fill 20GB rater fast without using compression so I wonder what the space usage on the game will be.

Like I said the PS3 dose have some potential but as it is now its a freaking gimmick 0-o

Comment by: oofRome (Sep 13, 2006 17:59)

I can't find any links right now either, but I am sure I remember hearing sony had mandated all ps3 games be on BD.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 13, 2006 18:07)

oofRome
I know its hard to find info when its just Sony taking about it ><

I recorrected myself is the post above so :P

I have a brain...I think......
I fuzzy braind mew =0_o=
FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.
"Music And Film Industry Association of America.."
"Hollywood the 4kids of comic moives."

Comment by: Andrew691 (Sep 13, 2006 18:23)

Yea you would have seen what i had seen,(BD games) but i cant find it either.

@hughjars

Quote:

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well supportd by MS and every other games manufacturer

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Where did you pull out of? the reason Microsoft didn't add internal HD-DVD is mainly because they didn't want to get involved in the format war until someone was going to be a clear winner. Games manufacturers have not announced any loyalty to either side (provide a link) more movie company's have sided with BD than HD-DVD.

For some reason i cant get onto the official bluray website to find out who is supporting what but its there.

Comment by: hughjars (Sep 13, 2006 18:50)

Where did I get the idea HD-DVD would be well supported by MS & the games manufacturers?

It's obvious.

The instant they start going into PC's as the first and only affordable HD drives to be had (for the vast majority).

That's not far off now (NEC have been showing off theirs IIRC).

HD-DVD movie player prices primarily & fitment as PC OEM are going to be the killer issues, IMO.

Not the XBox 360 or PS3's HD capabilities.

Home cinema set-ups are what is going to decide this.

(Well that and the fact Blu-ray can only offer the same quality of image, a bigger leap in capacity compared to the leap HD-DVD is offering, that no one really needs, and all at twice the price).

The most damning 'strategic' fact as far as Sony are concerned (tho neither they nor their fan element would care to admit it) is that they have gone from being class leader (out-selling all the rest put together) to largest minority share this time around; a huge reversal for them.....and no serious market watchers expect any different with PS3.

IMO it has always been a long-term strategy.

But the stage is set for the gen after this one to see MS dominate, for better or worse.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 13, 2006 18:51)

Andrew691

I believe hes saying that HD DVD is stable and MS is behind it and is in a position to make games and put computer software and such on it.

But you are right MS has said they don't want to get into HD DVD gameing,...

also since the 360 was not made for it from the start they have a larger cliff to climb....sure the 360 can do HD DVD games I have no dout it can but will it be worth MS and game stuidos time to do it....

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Sep 13, 2006 18:55)

hughjars

ahhh to set the stage for a Xbx 2 in 2-5 years with full HD DVD and such

If BR worked I would be happy with it as a backup sulution,bit right now its wonky *L*

Comment by: Andrew691 (Sep 13, 2006 19:26)

HD-DVD/BD aren't yet needed for PC games, im not sure if HD-DVD PC drives have been released yet but Sony already have their Viao laptops equipped with BD already.

These HD formats are NOT yet needed for PC gaming, look at Oblivion for example...

Comment by: Andrew691 (Sep 13, 2006 19:32)

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/394034 looks like M$ just screwed all current 360 owners over, have a look at the links.

Comment by: hughjars (Sep 21, 2006 13:47)

Not trying to spam the board but this seems relevant here -

The BBC are today reporting Microsift's XBox 360 HD DVD add-on will retail in Japan at £89 - approx $160 US.

Quote:

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At a pre-TGS event in Tokyo, Microsoft said it would be releasing a HD-DVD player for the Xbox 360 on 17 November in Japan, priced 19,800 yen (£89).

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5342836.stm

It remains to be seen what they'll charge elsewhere but if this is the pitching point in Japan it's got to look good for the rest of us?

Major bargain of the year or what?