News

Comment by: Oner (Dec 31, 2009 20:48)

Originally posted by av_verbal:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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See I have to disagree (to an extent) as I have yet to see anything on PC that matches GT5 Prologue (let alone the upcoming GT5) in graphics and even partially physics (not crashing mind you, the actual feel of driving).

You single out the Video Card but what about the Cell or the XDR ram or even the built in standard Bluray, Blutooth, WiFi and etc. for that matter? Shouldn't those get credit in itself because they are key factors that ARE current?

And no. I don't think anyone really thinks games are ONLY created on/for a console.

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lmao, max resolution PS3 1080 PC 1900.

obviously you have never completed even a basic it course, as one of the first things you learn is that:

A COMPUTER IS ONLY AS GOOD AS ITS WEAKEST LINK!

so the £20 nvidia 7000 series VGA that the PS3 boasts, is the limit of the power, or the tiny 128mb of ram, or the board that connects it all. you could put the most powerful processor in it but it would be liken to:

putting a Ferrari engine in a morris minor!




it looks cool but handles like trash.

this is the last comment i will be posting in this pathetic thread that appears to have descended into the pro sony point always wins.

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#1 Your assumptions about me are wrong while at the same time showing a lot about yourself.

#2 If you were so versed in "technology" then you would know that the PS3's Cell actually helps with the processing of the graphics so to imply the VGA is it's only source of "power" is a bit misinformed as it is simply not that cut and dry.

#3 Again if you were so versed in "technology" you would know the PS3 Video card actually has 256megs of ram on it (not 128 as you believe/claim) and the console as a whole can utilize the full 512meg available if necessary (but you knew that right?)

#4 What has really decended here is that you actually really never answered any part of my comment and made false claims.

I am not trying to argue with you (although you seem to be towards me), I am simply offering correct verifiable information that you haven't properly addressed or even attempted to answer.

Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
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Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

Comment by: xnonsuchx (Dec 31, 2009 22:54)

Originally posted by Oner:

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#1 Your assumptions about me are wrong while at the same time showing a lot about yourself.

#2 If you were so versed in "technology" then you would know that the PS3's Cell actually helps with the processing of the graphics so to imply the VGA is it's only source of "power" is a bit misinformed as it is simply not that cut and dry.

#3 Again if you were so versed in "technology" you would know the PS3 Video card actually has 256megs of ram on it (not 128 as you believe/claim) and the console as a whole can utilize the full 512meg available if necessary (but you knew that right?)

#4 What has really decended here is that you actually really never answered any part of my comment and made false claims.

I am not trying to argue with you (although you seem to be towards me), I am simply offering correct verifiable information that you haven't properly addressed or even attempted to answer.

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I don't think anyone is going to convince the argumentative haters like av and dxr that they are wrong about their misinformation.

Comment by: Oner (Jan 01, 2010 03:19)

Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Originally posted by Oner:

---

#1 Your assumptions about me are wrong while at the same time showing a lot about yourself.

#2 If you were so versed in "technology" then you would know that the PS3's Cell actually helps with the processing of the graphics so to imply the VGA is it's only source of "power" is a bit misinformed as it is simply not that cut and dry.

#3 Again if you were so versed in "technology" you would know the PS3 Video card actually has 256megs of ram on it (not 128 as you believe/claim) and the console as a whole can utilize the full 512meg available if necessary (but you knew that right?)

#4 What has really decended here is that you actually really never answered any part of my comment and made false claims.

I am not trying to argue with you (although you seem to be towards me), I am simply offering correct verifiable information that you haven't properly addressed or even attempted to answer.

---

I don't think anyone is going to convince the argumentative haters like av and dxr that they are wrong about their misinformation.

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I actually don't think DXR is misinformed at all, just because someone may have a different opinion doesn't always mean they are "haters" or wrong per se. As for others; well....but this is not something we should make a deal out of so I will ask everyone (including myself) to take it down a notch and just have a simple discussion (although I really don't think this is out of hand or anything), and if you can't then I kindly ask please refrain from posting to avoid spoiling it for others.

Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
Rules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 01, 2010 05:51)

Quote:

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Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

---

Originally posted by Oner:

---

#1 Your assumptions about me are wrong while at the same time showing a lot about yourself.

#2 If you were so versed in "technology" then you would know that the PS3's Cell actually helps with the processing of the graphics so to imply the VGA is it's only source of "power" is a bit misinformed as it is simply not that cut and dry.

#3 Again if you were so versed in "technology" you would know the PS3 Video card actually has 256megs of ram on it (not 128 as you believe/claim) and the console as a whole can utilize the full 512meg available if necessary (but you knew that right?)

#4 What has really decended here is that you actually really never answered any part of my comment and made false claims.

I am not trying to argue with you (although you seem to be towards me), I am simply offering correct verifiable information that you haven't properly addressed or even attempted to answer.

---

I don't think anyone is going to convince the argumentative haters like av and dxr that they are wrong about their misinformation.

---

I actually don't think DXR is misinformed at all, just because someone may have a different opinion doesn't always mean they are "haters" or wrong per se. As for others; well....but this is not something we should make a deal out of so I will ask everyone (including myself) to take it down a notch and just have a simple discussion (although I really don't think this is out of hand or anything), and if you can't then I kindly ask please refrain from posting to avoid spoiling it for others.

---

What I am getting at Sony wasted alot of time and effort doing the PS3 like they did, I think if they went with twice the ramm it would have saved the industry alot of grief trying to optimize code for it. Not to mention how much better, stronger and longer lasting it would be be with more ramm. But ya I am nit picking its a much better console than it was at launch...but IMO it has a long way to go to merit 300$.

Now as for the 360 its barely worth 200$ mainly due to hardware issues and I fear in less than 2 years it will be replaced so theres little in getting a new one might as well save and use that money for the next system....

Comment by: scum101 (Jan 01, 2010 06:47)

poor oner.. sometimes regardless of our personal issues I really feel for you, having to defeend the indefensible crap product against the onslaught. Of course a console system wil become outdated in it's lifetime.. that's why they are pointless. blu disks died a death.. consumers aren't interested and the ps3 was abandoned nt fony pretty much as soon as it hit the shelves. fact.. there was a news item on this site a year or so ago saying that so there we are. whatever.. keep it sweet and it's on.. as long as dela don't show up eh?

What does get to me is how these console threads go on for page after page when there is really nothing to say... wouldn't it be easier to just post some facts and hit close, or not even bother with comments and discussion on a news item which is a rumour or a statement of fact?? I'm very surprised how long this bot built account has lasted.. made senior again.. like i give a crap.. anyhow.. I have actually enjoyed reading some of the posts in this thread.. most informative.. thanks all.. happy 2010.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 01, 2010 07:40)

Originally posted by scum101:

---

poor oner.. sometimes regardless of our personal issues I really feel for you, having to defeend the indefensible crap product against the onslaught. Of course a console system wil become outdated in it's lifetime.. that's why they are pointless. blu disks died a death.. consumers aren't interested and the ps3 was abandoned nt fony pretty much as soon as it hit the shelves. fact.. there was a news item on this site a year or so ago saying that so there we are. whatever.. keep it sweet and it's on.. as long as dela don't show up eh?

What does get to me is how these console threads go on for page after page when there is really nothing to say... wouldn't it be easier to just post some facts and hit close, or not even bother with comments and discussion on a news item which is a rumour or a statement of fact?? I'm very surprised how long this bot built account has lasted.. made senior again.. like i give a crap.. anyhow.. I have actually enjoyed reading some of the posts in this thread.. most informative.. thanks all.. happy 2010.

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Well he makes great points and in how hardware/industry progresses all that matters by the end of the day is if the hardware can sale despite itself. One can either live and let live with their media/hardware mentality or whine and bitch about it. I prefer to never forget and never forgive...and sharpen my teeth and comb my hair.....*rolls eyes*

Comment by: Oner (Jan 01, 2010 13:30)

Originally posted by scum101:

---

Of course a console system wil become outdated in it's lifetime.. that's why they are pointless. blu disks died a death.. consumers aren't interested and the ps3 was abandoned nt fony pretty much as soon as it hit the shelves. fact..

---

I personally wouldn't say enjoying a dedicated gaming machine for 7-10 years a waste. The same could also be said about PC's and owning a PC is by far the greater loss of expense (in terms of outdating hardware) but is a PC pointless? Just because you think consoles are pointless doesn't mean they are, that is YOUR personal opinion about them.

I have a few valid questions to ask you about the PS3 scum ~ If you think it's a fact that consumers aren't intersted in the PS3 then how would you explain a few of these questions I ask ~

1) If consumers weren't interested in the PS3 then why is it the 3rd fastest selling console in History?

2) What about how the PS3 has outsold the 360 in the same time frame when compared to eachother? (first year vs first year and so on)

3) How would you explain that the PS3 outsold or equally matched the 360 (YOY WW) all while being around $200 more expensive for the most part of this gen?

4) Could you explain how there are currently estimated about 30 Million PS3's sold vs the 360's 35-36 Million even tough it had a year head start in the US and nearly a year and a half in Europe? Doesn't RROD or E74 repurchases & LIVE bannings affect the bottom line to be closer than most believe?

5) You claim as fact the PS3 was "abandoned nt fony pretty much as soon as it hit the shelves. fact" so how would you explain how Sony have not closed down any major inhouse devs (currently around 20 ~ the most in the business btw) while MS has shut down quite a few and are down to what ~ 3?

6) While on the topic of games, support & abandonement have you actually followed what has happened to MS's lineup since late 2008? Because your view point sure sounds like it fits them a hell of a lot better than it does Sony's.

7) Estimations are showing the PS3 has outsold the 360 by about 2 million for 2009. How is that showing "no interest" by consumers?

8) If "blu disks died a death" why/how have they proven time and time again to sale equally to DVD's when they were first released if not even better? Now I have to make clear that I do not think BD will replace DVD's. Never have. But I do see them doing fine along side them just like forms of similar media have (CD along side DVD being "discs")...Plus have you ever heard a game developer say "we need less space"? BD's are great for gaming and are a necessity to help grow the field not stiffle, limit and stagnate the industry.


And if that was not enough, on top of all that above, this happened in the face of one of the worst glabal economy meltdowns in history. When you have a broader, more open & and factually supported view, the WHOLE picture looks a lot clearer than what most "claim".

Lastly I have to add/ask this about your opening statement ~

Originally posted by scum101:

---

poor oner.. sometimes regardless of our personal issues I really feel for you, having to defeend the indefensible crap product against the onslaught.

---

Why does it concern you what I do? Your condescension is surely not needed nor necessary here. I am here at Afterdawn for a REASON. I was asked to be a Moderator and help build up the console section of aD because of my experience and knowledge in this area. And 21 sections including nearly 1.3+/- MILLION posts in those said areas alone reflect this.

Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
Rules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

Comment by: Oner (Jan 01, 2010 14:17)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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One honest look at only Killzone 2, GT5P & Uncharted 2 will answer that question easily.

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I don't really see it.... the 360 is damn close they could do better but meh

What was the racing game that had shadow maps and extra day/night modes for them sicne the PS3 had more space thats the only PS3 game I have saw so far that very clearly did more.

---

I'm drawing a blank on the game but I should have been more clear in my explanation in that I was implying the games as a whole (physics, size, story, sound & etc PLUS graphics...not just graphics)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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and uhg your going to make me reply to all of these :P

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Yes I am ;)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Originally posted by Oner:

---

The 360 launched on November 22, 2005 in the US & Canada ~ Source It has been out for 4 years. So going by what you said in this post

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4/5 years whatever with the PS3 out and other issues now is a good time as any to upgrade the X line to a new console but not get rid of support for the old....

---

But that does not fall in line with the timeline you said earlier as I quoted/explained earlier (and below in the next quote)?.?.? But I understand what you mean to an extent now as it would be their only choice though I believe it would ultimately do more harm for them and their customers than good if they did.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

Originally posted by Oner:

---

You are saying you would have preferred it be retired after only being on the market for less than what it's predecessor was (original Xbox was about 4 years or so) in 2007/2008. That would sure as hell piss me off as a gamer to buy something that is obsolete that quickly and not supported thereafter!

---

Lovely thing about full BWC you can move on without abandoning anything, you are able to do both at once and not lose much in the process the new system is there for those willing to make the jump, if MS would put full BWC on it make live free for multi player but offer a more feature rich subscription setup I mean its win win its just a shame they will never do it.

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I agree. Which is the model that Sony has followed...at least in the beginning with the 20, 60 & early 80 gb models though I am sure they would have the data to show BWC (while wanted by most if not all) probably doesn't get used as much as people think. Thus the removal of that feature to aid in cost reduction later on was probably wise...even if only to make up some market share since they actually still support and sell a physical PS2 model. Plus there are still rumblings of Sony being able to offer this via software emulation in a FW. But we shall see.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

Originally posted by Oner:

---

But that's the thing Zippy there are no more bottle necks. The only true bottle neck was the time it would take devs to wrap their heads around programming for the PS3 and since the tools and support/sharing between devs is so much better this gen (for/from Sony) it ultimately becomes a wash anyway.

---

........ no more bottle necks?.......good god man listen to yourself.........

---

I think if you re-read what I said, yoiu will understand my meaning is that there are no more bottle necks because they have the tools to work around it. I.E. ~ If they can easily work within the hardware at this current time, then it cannot be a "bottle neck" to them anymore as it was in the beginning. Got me? Or am I just doing/emulating a "Zippyism" ;P

Anyways I'll be back later as I have to re-install XP and all the ancillary crap because my 7 dual boot is losing HDD's & partitions plus my XP had already took a header into the abyss sometime during the confusion...God do I hate Microsoft ;)...I really hope Google's OS is acceptable. If not, to hell with them too!

Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
Rules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 01, 2010 14:23)

Originally posted by Oner:

---

Originally posted by scum101:

---

Of course a console system wil become outdated in it's lifetime.. that's why they are pointless. blu disks died a death.. consumers aren't interested and the ps3 was abandoned nt fony pretty much as soon as it hit the shelves. fact..

---

I personally wouldn't say enjoying a dedicated gaming machine for 7-10 years a waste. The same could also be said about PC's and owning a PC is by far the greater loss of expense (in terms of outdating hardware) but is a PC pointless? Just because you think consoles are pointless doesn't mean they are, that is YOUR personal opinion about them.

I have a few valid questions to ask you about the PS3 scum ~ If you think it's a fact that consumers aren't intersted in the PS3 then how would you explain a few of these questions I ask ~

1) If consumers weren't interested in the PS3 then why is it the 3rd fastest selling console in History?

2) What about how the PS3 has outsold the 360 in the same time frame when compared to eachother? (first year vs first year and so on)

3) How would you explain that the PS3 outsold or equally matched the 360 (YOY WW) all while being around $200 more expensive for the most part of this gen?

4) Could you explain how there are currently estimated about 30 Million PS3's sold vs the 360's 35-36 Million even tough it had a year head start in the US and nearly a year and a half in Europe? Doesn't RROD or E74 repurchases & LIVE bannings affect the bottom line to be closer than most believe?

5) You claim as fact the PS3 was "abandoned nt fony pretty much as soon as it hit the shelves. fact" so how would you explain how Sony have not closed down any major inhouse devs (currently around 20 ~ the most in the business btw) while MS has shut down quite a few and are down to what ~ 3?

6) While on the topic of games, support & abandonement have you actually followed what has happened to MS's lineup since late 2008? Because your view point sure sounds like it fits them a hell of a lot better than it does Sony's.

7) Estimations are showing the PS3 has outsold the 360 by about 2 million for 2009. How is that showing "no interest" by consumers?

8) If "blu disks died a death" why/how have they proven time and time again to sale equally to DVD's when they were first released if not even better? Now I have to make clear that I do not think BD will replace DVD's. Never have. But I do see them doing fine along side them just like forms of similar media have (CD along side DVD being "discs")...Plus have you ever heard a game developer say "we need less space"? BD's are great for gaming and are a necessity to help grow the field not stiffle, limit and stagnate the industry.


And if that was not enough, on top of all that above, this happened in the face of one of the worst glabal economy meltdowns in history. When you have a broader, more open & and factually supported view, the WHOLE picture looks a lot clearer than what most "claim".

Lastly I have to add/ask this about your opening statement ~

Originally posted by scum101:

---

poor oner.. sometimes regardless of our personal issues I really feel for you, having to defeend the indefensible crap product against the onslaught.

---

Why does it concern you what I do? Your condescension is surely not needed nor necessary here. I am here at Afterdawn for a REASON. I was asked to be a Moderator and help build up the console section of aD because of my experience and knowledge in this area. And 21 sections including nearly 1.3+/- MILLION posts in those said areas alone reflect this.

---

The PS3 is doing well enough but frankly if they didnt screw up so much they would have done alot more by now. I can't say the same 360 as most of issues are triaiarty and more annoying than the slow down choices made for the PS3 but ya I am begin fickle and nitpicky.

I really do wish to see the best done with both the 360 seems to be dieing a slow death while the PS3 can't get over itself. If the WII had save states and cheats for the GC and VC stuff I'd probably like it the most despite the under developed control setup.......

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 01, 2010 15:08)

Originally posted by Oner:

---

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

Originally posted by Oner:

---

One honest look at only Killzone 2, GT5P & Uncharted 2 will answer that question easily.

---

I don't really see it.... the 360 is damn close they could do better but meh

What was the racing game that had shadow maps and extra day/night modes for them sicne the PS3 had more space thats the only PS3 game I have saw so far that very clearly did more.

---

I'm drawing a blank on the game but I should have been more clear in my explanation in that I was implying the games as a whole (physics, size, story, sound & etc PLUS graphics...not just graphics)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

and uhg your going to make me reply to all of these :P

---

Yes I am ;)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

Originally posted by Oner:

---

The 360 launched on November 22, 2005 in the US & Canada ~ Source It has been out for 4 years. So going by what you said in this post

---

4/5 years whatever with the PS3 out and other issues now is a good time as any to upgrade the X line to a new console but not get rid of support for the old....

---

But that does not fall in line with the timeline you said earlier as I quoted/explained earlier (and below in the next quote)?.?.? But I understand what you mean to an extent now as it would be their only choice though I believe it would ultimately do more harm for them and their customers than good if they did.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

Originally posted by Oner:

---

You are saying you would have preferred it be retired after only being on the market for less than what it's predecessor was (original Xbox was about 4 years or so) in 2007/2008. That would sure as hell piss me off as a gamer to buy something that is obsolete that quickly and not supported thereafter!

---

Lovely thing about full BWC you can move on without abandoning anything, you are able to do both at once and not lose much in the process the new system is there for those willing to make the jump, if MS would put full BWC on it make live free for multi player but offer a more feature rich subscription setup I mean its win win its just a shame they will never do it.

---

I agree. Which is the model that Sony has followed...at least in the beginning with the 20, 60 & early 80 gb models though I am sure they would have the data to show BWC (while wanted by most if not all) probably doesn't get used as much as people think. Thus the removal of that feature to aid in cost reduction later on was probably wise...even if only to make up some market share since they actually still support and sell a physical PS2 model. Plus there are still rumblings of Sony being able to offer this via software emulation in a FW. But we shall see.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

Originally posted by Oner:

---

But that's the thing Zippy there are no more bottle necks. The only true bottle neck was the time it would take devs to wrap their heads around programming for the PS3 and since the tools and support/sharing between devs is so much better this gen (for/from Sony) it ultimately becomes a wash anyway.

---

........ no more bottle necks?.......good god man listen to yourself.........

---

I think if you re-read what I said, yoiu will understand my meaning is that there are no more bottle necks because they have the tools to work around it. I.E. ~ If they can easily work within the hardware at this current time, then it cannot be a "bottle neck" to them anymore as it was in the beginning. Got me? Or am I just doing/emulating a "Zippyism" ;P

Anyways I'll be back later as I have to re-install XP and all the ancillary crap because my 7 dual boot is losing HDD's & partitions plus my XP had already took a header into the abyss sometime during the confusion...God do I hate Microsoft ;)...I really hope Google's OS is acceptable. If not, to hell with them too!

---

I know I know either way the 360 can manage well enough but the way things go I'd like it out now(as in acouple years) with full BWC, support for 360 live for 5 years and full MP free with more features on the subscription plan. Also if they do it and launch it at a 350$ price point and leave it at 350$ for 5 years they will at least break break even. It can be done but they are going to build a more closed and controlled hardware/software environment and if they go lulzy with the hardware it might be their Saturn song.... I don;t know if MS could handle 3 or so years of slow sales like Sony did I don't think they are that patient and if they did they would widly rape it apart like Sony and the PS3.


I do not think the BWC was the best choice to take for sony since they invented proper BWC in the first place its left me quite pissed at them, well that and the hardware dickary and thinking a 800$ hard to code for console would sale well.... at least MS's was half the price for more fail...er....wahtever :P

IMO the PS3 lacks foresight and continuance and this annoys me the 360 just has bad hardware that's probably making it age faster than it should be, I mean with such hardware issues how can they fully push it to it max without luqiud cooling?.

Its crazy, both are messed up and opportunistic but even with that said I think Sony more or less has a better future path planed out, if the enxt box has open hardware and full BWC in any form out of the box they finally got over themselves and made the better system unless of coarse it has hardware that's worse than the PS3/360 0-o

Oh BTW whos fault is it for bringing in a console to a industry that can not adept to it well? I say its the console makers fault for biting off mroe than they can chew. And I still think that the ramm limtis the PS3 to much if it had twice the ramm I could see it lasting 8+ years as the main console before another comes out but the way it is I would be surprised if we do not see a new PS console out in 4-5 years.

I'd like to see more thought put into a full featured product that will last in 10 year cycles.

Comment by: av_verbal (Jan 01, 2010 21:51)

Originally posted by Oner:

---

Originally posted by scum101:

---

Of course a console system wil become outdated in it's lifetime.. that's why they are pointless. blu disks died a death.. consumers aren't interested and the ps3 was abandoned nt fony pretty much as soon as it hit the shelves. fact..

---

I personally wouldn't say enjoying a dedicated gaming machine for 7-10 years a waste. The same could also be said about PC's and owning a PC is by far the greater loss of expense (in terms of outdating hardware) but is a PC pointless? Just because you think consoles are pointless doesn't mean they are, that is YOUR personal opinion about them.

I have a few valid questions to ask you about the PS3 scum ~ If you think it's a fact that consumers aren't intersted in the PS3 then how would you explain a few of these questions I ask ~

1) If consumers weren't interested in the PS3 then why is it the 3rd fastest selling console in History?

2) What about how the PS3 has outsold the 360 in the same time frame when compared to eachother? (first year vs first year and so on)

3) How would you explain that the PS3 outsold or equally matched the 360 (YOY WW) all while being around $200 more expensive for the most part of this gen?

4) Could you explain how there are currently estimated about 30 Million PS3's sold vs the 360's 35-36 Million even tough it had a year head start in the US and nearly a year and a half in Europe? Doesn't RROD or E74 repurchases & LIVE bannings affect the bottom line to be closer than most believe?

5) You claim as fact the PS3 was "abandoned nt fony pretty much as soon as it hit the shelves. fact" so how would you explain how Sony have not closed down any major inhouse devs (currently around 20 ~ the most in the business btw) while MS has shut down quite a few and are down to what ~ 3?

6) While on the topic of games, support & abandonement have you actually followed what has happened to MS's lineup since late 2008? Because your view point sure sounds like it fits them a hell of a lot better than it does Sony's.

7) Estimations are showing the PS3 has outsold the 360 by about 2 million for 2009. How is that showing "no interest" by consumers?

8) If "blu disks died a death" why/how have they proven time and time again to sale equally to DVD's when they were first released if not even better? Now I have to make clear that I do not think BD will replace DVD's. Never have. But I do see them doing fine along side them just like forms of similar media have (CD along side DVD being "discs")...Plus have you ever heard a game developer say "we need less space"? BD's are great for gaming and are a necessity to help grow the field not stiffle, limit and stagnate the industry.


And if that was not enough, on top of all that above, this happened in the face of one of the worst glabal economy meltdowns in history. When you have a broader, more open & and factually supported view, the WHOLE picture looks a lot clearer than what most "claim".

Lastly I have to add/ask this about your opening statement ~

Originally posted by scum101:

---

poor oner.. sometimes regardless of our personal issues I really feel for you, having to defeend the indefensible crap product against the onslaught.

---

Why does it concern you what I do? Your condescension is surely not needed nor necessary here. I am here at Afterdawn for a REASON. I was asked to be a Moderator and help build up the console section of aD because of my experience and knowledge in this area. And 21 sections including nearly 1.3+/- MILLION posts in those said areas alone reflect this.

---

is this a serious post by a moderator on a supposed unbiased tech web site is it? omg!

Wii Dominates Amazon's 2009 Sales List 12/31/2009

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177479



Blu-ray players could top the Christmas list, but the format has a long way to go

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/200...-christmas-list

Sales of Sony's premium product have disappointed so far, accounting for just 12% of DVD player sales in Europe

Two years ago, Sony was brimming with confidence: in April 2007 it produced an internal presentation of sales projections which reckoned that by the end of 2009, 27m players would be in use, and 85m discs sold.

Blu-ray player sales have grown rapidly this year , but they still make up less than 12% of DVD player sales in western Europe, according to data released recently by the analysis company GfK Group.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 01, 2010 22:10)

Originally posted by av_verbal:

---

snip

is this a serious post by a moderator on a supposed unbiased tech web site is it? omg!

Wii Dominates Amazon's 2009 Sales List 12/31/2009

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177479



Blu-ray players could top the Christmas list, but the format has a long way to go

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/200...-christmas-list

Sales of Sony's premium product have disappointed so far, accounting for just 12% of DVD player sales in Europe

Two years ago, Sony was brimming with confidence: in April 2007 it produced an internal presentation of sales projections which reckoned that by the end of 2009, 27m players would be in use, and 85m discs sold.

Blu-ray player sales have grown rapidly this year , but they still make up less than 12% of DVD player sales in western Europe, according to data released recently by the analysis company GfK Group.

---

Meh everyone has a bias those that are good with word and letter are either cable at explaining it away or hiding it, I'd rather them explain it than hide it.

BR is growing and more so than LD and VCD and anything that came after VHS and before DVD. BR needs another year or 2 to get decent low cost (sub 70$) players out as the main player line up that with supporting DVD in their BR releases in 5 to 10 years DVD will be where VHS is.

Comment by: av_verbal (Jan 01, 2010 22:37)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

Originally posted by av_verbal:

---

snip

is this a serious post by a moderator on a supposed unbiased tech web site is it? omg!

Wii Dominates Amazon's 2009 Sales List 12/31/2009

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177479



Blu-ray players could top the Christmas list, but the format has a long way to go

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/200...-christmas-list

Sales of Sony's premium product have disappointed so far, accounting for just 12% of DVD player sales in Europe

Two years ago, Sony was brimming with confidence: in April 2007 it produced an internal presentation of sales projections which reckoned that by the end of 2009, 27m players would be in use, and 85m discs sold.

Blu-ray player sales have grown rapidly this year , but they still make up less than 12% of DVD player sales in western Europe, according to data released recently by the analysis company GfK Group.

---

Meh everyone has a bias those that are good with word and letter are either cable at explaining it away or hiding it, I'd rather them explain it than hide it.

BR is growing and more so than LD and VCD and anything that came after VHS and before DVD. BR needs another year or 2 to get decent low cost (sub 70$) players out as the main player line up that with supporting DVD in their BR releases in 5 to 10 years DVD will be where VHS is.

---

as my post stated Blu-Ray grown rapidly this year but has a long way to go.

imo mr/mrs zippy a site that is supposedly a news site, should enforce objective rules.

Subjective news sites are fan/rhetoric/agenda/propaganda/advertising/etc sites, are they not?

Comment by: Oner (Jan 01, 2010 22:51)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

Originally posted by av_verbal:

---

snip

is this a serious post by a moderator on a supposed unbiased tech web site is it? omg!

Wii Dominates Amazon's 2009 Sales List 12/31/2009

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177479



Blu-ray players could top the Christmas list, but the format has a long way to go

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/200...-christmas-list

Sales of Sony's premium product have disappointed so far, accounting for just 12% of DVD player sales in Europe

Two years ago, Sony was brimming with confidence: in April 2007 it produced an internal presentation of sales projections which reckoned that by the end of 2009, 27m players would be in use, and 85m discs sold.

Blu-ray player sales have grown rapidly this year , but they still make up less than 12% of DVD player sales in western Europe, according to data released recently by the analysis company GfK Group.

---

Meh everyone has a bias those that are good with word and letter are either cable at explaining it away or hiding it, I'd rather them explain it than hide it.

BR is growing and more so than LD and VCD and anything that came after VHS and before DVD. BR needs another year or 2 to get decent low cost (sub 70$) players out as the main player line up that with supporting DVD in their BR releases in 5 to 10 years DVD will be where VHS is.

---

@ Zippy & av_verbal ~ It is widely known I prefer the PS3 over my 360 (especially since it has broken on me 5 times) and over my Wii because there are no quality titles on it or I have played them all (whatever there are).

@ av_verbal Either way I have a RIGHT to voice my opinion about ANY product I buy/own, especially one as faulty as the 360. If people consider that me being "biased" or whatever, it still doesn't matter as being unbiased was never a pre-requisite when I came aboard. Considering I have done more than enough to actually HELP EVERYONE with their console issues from PS, Wii & Xbox modding through to helping fix DRE's on PS2's & RROD's on Xbox 360's. Just because you don't see it nor want to believe it does not mean it never happened. The only gripe I have with your point about BD av_verbal is you state

Quote:

---

accounting for just 12% of DVD player sales in Europe

---

I don't claim the US and/or NPD to be the be all end all when making a point so to single out the EU as the definitive descriptor for how BD stands is a bit limited in my opinion. No matter how you slice it BD is following the same foot steps as DVD way back when and if it continues the same way it will do just fine. Again let me reiterate though ~ I do not think BD will replace DVD's. Never have. But I do see them doing fine along side them just like forms of similar media have (CD along side DVD being "discs") or maybe at least not for quite a long while, ultimately.


Edit:

Originally posted by av_verbal:

---

imo mr/mrs zippy a site that is supposedly a news site, should enforce objective rules.

Subjective news sites are fan/rhetoric/agenda/propaganda/advertising/etc sites, are they not?

---

aD is more than JUST a "News Site" and last I checked, under the News discussion link it states ~

Quote:

---

Read what our users have said about news articles published on our news section and feel free to participate too.

---

So please discuss...

Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
Rules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 01, 2010 23:32)

Originally posted by Oner:

---

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

Originally posted by av_verbal:

---

snip

is this a serious post by a moderator on a supposed unbiased tech web site is it? omg!

Wii Dominates Amazon's 2009 Sales List 12/31/2009

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3177479



Blu-ray players could top the Christmas list, but the format has a long way to go

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/200...-christmas-list

Sales of Sony's premium product have disappointed so far, accounting for just 12% of DVD player sales in Europe

Two years ago, Sony was brimming with confidence: in April 2007 it produced an internal presentation of sales projections which reckoned that by the end of 2009, 27m players would be in use, and 85m discs sold.

Blu-ray player sales have grown rapidly this year , but they still make up less than 12% of DVD player sales in western Europe, according to data released recently by the analysis company GfK Group.

---

Meh everyone has a bias those that are good with word and letter are either cable at explaining it away or hiding it, I'd rather them explain it than hide it.

BR is growing and more so than LD and VCD and anything that came after VHS and before DVD. BR needs another year or 2 to get decent low cost (sub 70$) players out as the main player line up that with supporting DVD in their BR releases in 5 to 10 years DVD will be where VHS is.

---

@ Zippy & av_verbal ~ It is widely known I prefer the PS3 over my 360 (especially since it has broken on me 5 times) and over my Wii because there are no quality titles on it or I have played them all (whatever there are).

@ av_verbal Either way I have a RIGHT to voice my opinion about ANY product I buy/own, especially one as faulty as the 360. If people consider that me being "biased" or whatever, it still doesn't matter as being unbiased was never a pre-requisite when I came aboard. Considering I have done more than enough to actually HELP EVERYONE with their console issues from PS, Wii & Xbox modding through to helping fix DRE's on PS2's & RROD's on Xbox 360's. Just because you don't see it nor want to believe it does not mean it never happened. The only gripe I have with your point about BD av_verbal is you state

Quote:

---

accounting for just 12% of DVD player sales in Europe

---

I don't claim the US and/or NPD to be the be all end all when making a point so to single out the EU as the definitive descriptor for how BD stands is a bit limited in my opinion. No matter how you slice it BD is following the same foot steps as DVD way back when and if it continues the same way it will do just fine. Again let me reiterate though ~ I do not think BD will replace DVD's. Never have. But I do see them doing fine along side them just like forms of similar media have (CD along side DVD being "discs") or maybe at least not for quite a long while, ultimately.


Edit:

Originally posted by av_verbal:

---

imo mr/mrs zippy a site that is supposedly a news site, should enforce objective rules.

Subjective news sites are fan/rhetoric/agenda/propaganda/advertising/etc sites, are they not?

---

aD is more than JUST a "News Site" and last I checked, under the News discussion link it states ~

Quote:

---

Read what our users have said about news articles published on our news section and feel free to participate too.

---

So please discuss...

---

I love it when you take sides gives me a chance to toss some spit balls, its only a shame my trollish hate for everything dose not work on everything :P

This might sound funny but I think the 360 has done well greater than the PS3, simply because the PS3 has better world wide backing despite its slow start when the optimizations get to middle ware devs in acouple years more and more games will shine on the PS3 as they should(well should have years ago but whos counting :P). The 360has done all it could really and its done damn well considering all tis faults and return to mostly twitch gaming.... uhg MS should treat the 360 as a extension to the PC(windows OS) already >>

Comment by: DVDBack23 (Jan 02, 2010 06:04)

Quote:

---

Blu-ray players could top the Christmas list, but the format has a long way to go

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/200...-christmas-list

Sales of Sony's premium product have disappointed so far, accounting for just 12% of DVD player sales in Europe

Two years ago, Sony was brimming with confidence: in April 2007 it produced an internal presentation of sales projections which reckoned that by the end of 2009, 27m players would be in use, and 85m discs sold.

Blu-ray player sales have grown rapidly this year , but they still make up less than 12% of DVD player sales in western Europe, according to data released recently by the analysis company GfK Group.

---

What a giant speculative article that is, imo, biased. In April 2007, the world was not in the biggest recession since the Great Depression. Quantitative easing has helped move the world's stock markets and kept banks from failing, but how many consumers saw a raise this year from their jobs? Hell, how many people lost their jobs in Western Europe and the States? Exactly.

Additionally, Blu-ray is selling better than DVD did in its first years. Granted, Blu-ray over upscaled DVD is not as great a jump in quality as was DVD over VHS but anyone who does not see the quality difference is kidding themselves or has frankly never tried Blu-ray. I have only seen a few upscaled DVDs that come even close to Blu-ray (usually Wes Anderson movies).

I will take the opposite stance of Oner here and say that in 2012 (or before), Blu-ray will have the controlling stake in market share (50%+) over DVD, despite the Great Recession and other factors.

Comment by: Toshibot (Jan 02, 2010 13:46)

Originally posted by DVDBack23:

---

Blu-ray will have the controlling stake in market share (50%+) over DVD, despite the Great Recession and other factors.

---

I agree DVDBack23.

A little off topic but since someone opened the door on percentages and Blu-ray:

District 9 generated 41% first-week sales on Blu-ray.

Some additional Blu-ray milestones:

>Blu-ray just set another revenue record of $86 M following a $80 M week.

>That during the last 5 weeks Blu-ray has met or exceeded the best week of 2008 , The Dark Knight, by substantial margins.

(WE 12/14/08 = $47 M, last 6 weeks $41 M, $47 M, $69 M, $47M, $80 M, $86 M)


>That in the last 5 weeks, Blu-ray did more revenues than it did during the entire 2005 2006 2007 high definition optical disc format war with HD DVD.

(Blu-ray revenue through 2006 and 2007 was $307 M, the last five weeks are $329 M for Blu-ray)


>That in the last three months of this year, Blu-ray will have done more than it did in all of 2008?

(4QTD $543 M, EOY2008 $531 M)


>Blu-ray has done at least double what it did in 2008 revenue wise and is now a billion dollar industry.

(YTD2009 is $1194.42 M, EOY2008 $531.80 M)

Discussion on the data here:

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/high-def...rs-etc-263.html

Comment by: Oner (Jan 02, 2010 14:24)

Thank You Toshi. For the life of me I could not find the data that I have read through over the last 3 months or so online. It's appreciated.

@ DVDBack ~ I agree and that is exactly my point I have been trying to portray here. When you really start to look at the rise & trend BD is taking/following it sure does look damned good respectively, I just still have this feeling it's going to be hard for the bulk of the masses to really let go of DVD because of price and the penetration it has...although in this case that "feeling" is not something based off of all the info and rationale BD sales are showing to me/us, but in all honesty, it really wouldn't bother being proven wrong in this situation ;P

Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
Rules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660

Comment by: av_verbal (Jan 02, 2010 15:04)

before all you sales reps go crazy this is what i posted.

Quote:

---

Blu-Ray grown rapidly this year but has a long way to go.

---

news is objective if not its marketing, propaganda, rhetoric, etc.

so afterdawn is dead then, just another fan site for slating the 360 while promoting the PS3.

Anyway back on topic after the moderator oner is happy for this thread to descend into a 360 slagging match, i wander if anyone will be banned as he has done on many other threads or is it only people that criticise sony who get banned?

my original post on the 1st page stated:

Quote:

---

BTW back on topic didn't IBM state a couple of months ago that the Cell processor line is at an evolutionary dead end & killed it?

---

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 02, 2010 15:22)

Originally posted by av_verbal:

---

before all you sales reps go crazy this is what i posted.

Quote:

---

Blu-Ray grown rapidly this year but has a long way to go.

---

news is objective if not its marketing, propaganda, rhetoric, etc.

so afterdawn is dead then, just another fan site for slating the 360 while promoting the PS3.

Anyway back on topic after the moderator oner is happy for this thread to descend into a 360 slagging match, i wander if anyone will be banned as he has done on many other threads or is it only people that criticise sony who get banned?

my original post on the 1st page stated:

Quote:

---

BTW back on topic didn't IBM state a couple of months ago that the Cell processor line is at an evolutionary dead end & killed it?

---

---

Criticism=complaining, if not done with respect,tact and humor you will get banned because no one wants to hear your broken whiny record.

It also helps to kiss ass as much as you can while you do a bit of back stabing....oh wait that didnt come out right =0-o=

Comment by: Oner (Jan 02, 2010 15:42)

Originally posted by av_verbal:

---

Anyway back on topic after the moderator oner is happy for this thread to descend into a 360 slagging match, i wander if anyone will be banned as he has done on many other threads or is it only people that criticise sony who get banned?

---

And right on Que there is always someone who has to take it to a personal level instead of just having a simple discussion. THAT is where people get lost in translation...You can get banned for personal insults and slights that are uncalled for. Not for proving me or anyone wrong (which you haven't done I might add). And THAT is what you are all pissy about ~ being proven wrong or corrected in your information and not being able to do the same to me/others.

P.S. ~ it's not like I didn't warn people or didn't see this one coming (as usual)

Quote:

---

but this is not something we should make a deal out of so I will ask everyone (including myself) to take it down a notch and just have a simple discussion (although I really don't think this is out of hand or anything), and if you can't then I kindly ask please refrain from posting to avoid spoiling it for others.

---

P.P.S. ~ and if you REALLY want to be accurate you were the first person that brought the 360 into this conversation in the 3rd post down

Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/search
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Comment by: xnonsuchx (Jan 02, 2010 21:53)

Originally posted by av_verbal:

---

before all you sales reps go crazy this is what i posted.

Quote:

---

Blu-Ray grown rapidly this year but has a long way to go.

---

news is objective if not its marketing, propaganda, rhetoric, etc.

so afterdawn is dead then, just another fan site for slating the 360 while promoting the PS3.

Anyway back on topic after the moderator oner is happy for this thread to descend into a 360 slagging match, i wander if anyone will be banned as he has done on many other threads or is it only people that criticise sony who get banned?

---

So basically your argument is that this article isn't about the 360??? GOOD argument! ;-)

By the way, if you actually look at most console-related articles on this site, you'd see they're actually more skewed in favor of the 360. Just because a moderator is backing up the PS3 (in a solely PS-related article!) doesn't mean THE SITE is inherently biased in that direction. And calling people fanboys when you yourself are one is quite hypocritical.

Comment by: DXR88 (Jan 03, 2010 08:40)

folowing sonys trend the title should read:sony considering Quantum processor for ps4.

Comment by: NeoandGeo (Jan 04, 2010 14:27)

Why do news outlets always misinterpret the 10 year life cycle?

It does not mean 10 full years before the next system. It means that Sony will support the console for at least 10 years.

Comment by: emugamer (Jan 04, 2010 17:08)

Originally posted by NeoandGeo:

---

Why do news outlets always misinterpret the 10 year life cycle?

It does not mean 10 full years before the next system. It means that Sony will support the console for at least 10 years.

---

Quote:

---

Sony has repeatedly said the PS3 will have a ten year life span but it's interesting to see that the company already has the PS4 on its mind.

---

I don't think it was misinterpreted. It is interesting that in the 3rd year it's being considered. It's expected that Sony will continue to support the PS3. Dropping it would be foolish. Sony's history of support for the PS2 shows this. Both the 360 and PS3 have much larger and more intricate online systems/communities established than their predecessors did. It would be equally as intersting to see what MS does. They took a lot of heat for abandoning the XBOX 1 completely.