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Comment by: DXR88 (Jan 20, 2009 18:22)

Quote:

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Originally posted by DXR88:

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cool, they need to build another console. Sega Saturn Was kick ass.

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The saturn was a joke but for 2 or three games, even the N64 was a better designed system...the DC however ruled.

And Sega can not afford to get into the console making business not with the costs of it all and their lack of software design quality which has tanked over the years...

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i was speaking hardware wise. dragoon panzer was a good game

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 20, 2009 18:27)

Quote:

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Quote:

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Originally posted by DXR88:

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cool, they need to build another console. Sega Saturn Was kick ass.

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The saturn was a joke but for 2 or three games, even the N64 was a better designed system...the DC however ruled.

And Sega can not afford to get into the console making business not with the costs of it all and their lack of software design quality which has tanked over the years...

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i was speaking hardware wise. dragoon panzer was a good game

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Hardware wise its the precursor to the PS3 without all the extra/fancy features and developer support...... it was a nightmare to code for and sega could not be bothered to show devs how to code for it, that's the main r4eason it fell apart.......

Comment by: DXR88 (Jan 20, 2009 18:50)

exactly, it made a great dev console for people that could write code for it. the code wasn't as bad as the ps3, but it was sloppier than the ps3 code.

Comment by: DXR88 (Jan 20, 2009 18:52)

in anycase good for sega on the DD game list

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 20, 2009 18:57)

Originally posted by DXR88:

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in anycase good for sega on the DD game list

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I guess every little bit counts..but unless they come out with Saturn and DC games on it I am not interested :P


I think the PS3 suffers from annoying and hard to optimize code due to the hardware architecture they chose to use but its coming along they got alot fixed still has other issues but not more than the beleaguered 360.

Comment by: omegaman7 (Jan 25, 2009 19:08)

Hmmff. I loved the dreamcast. I thought sega completely tanked! I havnt heard their name in years. I used to love sonic the hedgehog. :D gonna have to play that today.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 25, 2009 19:16)

Originally posted by omegaman7:

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Hmmff. I loved the dreamcast. I thought sega completely tanked! I havnt heard their name in years. I used to love sonic the hedgehog. :D gonna have to play that today.

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Well by if you mean make suck ass games like Shadow the hedgehog and Sonic Unleashed...........

Comment by: omegaman7 (Jan 25, 2009 19:24)

Suck? Some games sucked. Like all consoles, not all games are good. To each his/her own. I like sanfrancisco rush 2049 (DC). Probably my absolute fav :D To date however, The NES (first), remains my most played console. Never been a huge gamer. NOW, isnt THAT funny, LOL. Im slowly getting back into it on my PC though.
EDIT - no, actually the N64 was probably the most played. Infact I have 2 of them. One needs repaired.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 25, 2009 19:32)

Originally posted by omegaman7:

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Suck? Some games sucked. Like all consoles, not all games are good. To each his/her own. I like sanfrancisco rush 2049 (DC). Probably my absolute fav :D To date however, The NES (first), remains my most played console. Never been a huge gamer. NOW, isnt THAT funny, LOL. Im slowly getting back into it on my PC though.
EDIT - no, actually the N64 was probably the most played. Infact I have 2 of them. One needs repaired.

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Focus dear focus, ever since the DC crashed sega has put out crappy games liek Shinign force EX(dablio clone?!?!) and pretty much all the sonic games have since the adventure series have been shtty, hell they even screwed up PSO....

Comment by: omegaman7 (Jan 25, 2009 19:44)

As I said, not been an avid gamer in quite some time :) I hear yah though. :)

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 25, 2009 19:47)

Originally posted by omegaman7:

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As I said, not been an avid gamer in quite some time :) I hear yah though. :)

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I was a avid gamer up till 2 or 3 years ago, price v quality is totally whack now adays.

Comment by: omegaman7 (Jan 25, 2009 19:55)

Yes indeedy, LOL. The PS3 makes me salivate, LOL. But the price is WAYYY too expensive. I suppose it COULD be justified though. I havnt read a whole lot into it so 360 fanboys please dont explode on me, but.. I heard that the PS3 is future proof in more than one way. Yes, it has FW upgradeability. But I also heard that their not tapping its full potential (CPU/GPU). Not even by a third I believe is what I read. Perhaps they havnt put out many games, because they're not seeing enough return on it yet. Sorry sony, My PC comes first, LOL.
Be gentle LOL

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 25, 2009 20:18)

Originally posted by omegaman7:

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Yes indeedy, LOL. The PS3 makes me salivate, LOL. But the price is WAYYY too expensive. I suppose it COULD be justified though. I havnt read a whole lot into it so 360 fanboys please dont explode on me, but.. I heard that the PS3 is future proof in more than one way. Yes, it has FW upgradeability. But I also heard that their not tapping its full potential (CPU/GPU). Not even by a third I believe is what I read. Perhaps they havnt put out many games, because they're not seeing enough return on it yet. Sorry sony, My PC comes first, LOL.
Be gentle LOL

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From what I have seen its more like they have not taped half its potential, its got a limit on what it can do visually but most of that is not that huge a problem as the bar is set high its the optimization that's hell but it gives them more to work with for the long run.

Both sony and MS need to slow it down and really work out a better plan for their next system, MS should focus on opening the 360 up working on BWC and shirking it so it heats less, hell put a blu ray drive in it at no added cost so games wont have space issues for newer games for awhile. The 360 could last another 5 years if they reinvented it a little.

The PS3 is hard to code for that alone keeps some games from it plus the cost of deving a next gen title is pushing more and more devs to do cheaper games or close/consolidate. The industry might be making more money but only the higher end pubs/devs.

The 360 is easy as a PC to code for but for optimizing and limit issues that are not needed on the PC.

Comment by: omegaman7 (Jan 25, 2009 20:35)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Both sony and MS need to slow it down and really work out a better plan for their next system, MS should focus on opening the 360 up working on BWC and shirking it so it heats less, hell put a blu ray drive in it at no added cost so games wont have space issues for newer games for awhile. The 360 could last another 5 years if they reinvented it a little.

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Yah... I think that they released the 360 a little too soon. One of my buddies has had his replaced/fixed 4 times. Atleast they're not releasing windows 7 in the same fashion. Make sure they get all the kinks out before release. I can understand their need to compete though. I still wont buy a 360 though. not even their next model. PC gaming is PLENTY for me. Besides, im bent on learning as much as possible. Eventually I wouldnt mind being the goto guy, even maybe own a pc repair shop. LOL, I guess I already am the goto guy :D
Sorry about off topic
It really is too bad about sega, a little friendly competition can make manufacturers try harder, and produce better gear. In my opinion, the more competition there is, the harder the other guy tries to produce better hardware. I remember thinking the N64 (FOR GRAPHICS) blew away the competition. Nintendo has always been good for children and adults alike. I miss my gamecube :( I like how they consoldiated paticular games all on one Minidisc.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 25, 2009 20:43)

Quote:

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Both sony and MS need to slow it down and really work out a better plan for their next system, MS should focus on opening the 360 up working on BWC and shirking it so it heats less, hell put a blu ray drive in it at no added cost so games wont have space issues for newer games for awhile. The 360 could last another 5 years if they reinvented it a little.

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Yah... I think that they released the 360 a little too soon. One of my buddies has had his replaced/fixed 4 times. Atleast they're not releasing windows 7 in the same fashion. Make sure they get all the kinks out before release. I can understand their need to compete though. I still wont buy a 360 though. not even their next model. PC gaming is PLENTY for me. Besides, im bent on learning as much as possible. Eventually I wouldnt mind being the goto guy, even maybe own a pc repair shop. LOL, I guess I already am the goto guy :D
Sorry about off topic
It really is too bad about sega, a little friendly competition can make manufacturers try harder, and produce better gear. In my opinion, the more competition there is, the harder the other guy tries to produce better hardware. I remember thinking the N64 (FOR GRAPHICS) blew away the competition. Nintendo has always been good for children and adults alike. I miss my gamecube :( I like how they consoldiated paticular games all on one Minidisc.

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Sega screwed up alot and one of its presidents committed sudice at the time thats the reason they got out of the console game.

MS released the 360 in beta form they spent 3B on extend warranties, the 360 is a mess hardware wise alot of the media stuff was shoehorned in in later revisions it works well enough but still has heating issues that doubles the normal fail rate for such devices.

Lost Odyssey and a couple other RPGs make up take note of the 360 but still hardware issues + under developed 50$ games + subscription fees I just can't do it...if I could get a new 60GB ps3 with BWC for 400$ I would without a second thought.

I am planning on getting a chiped 360 in the next 2 years.... and get that over with....

Comment by: Oner (Jan 25, 2009 22:11)

There are rumblings going around that Sega will have a PlayStation HOME space and will release/have 2 back catalog titles (more specifically Dreamcast) available through it to start. These are supposed to be Crazy Taxi & PowerStone. We shall see though, I hope Sega will sustain in the long run and wish them the best, knowing how far they have fallen.

I really wish it would have been Ninty, Sony & Sega over MS as they would have never allowed that kind of shoddy hardware to pass QA. If you really think about it, it seems MS did a Sony/Ninty with the Dreamcast being Windows CE based and then MS releasing the original Xbox with the knowledge from Sega.

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Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 25, 2009 22:14)

Originally posted by Oner:

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There is rumblings going around that Sega will have a PlayStation HOME space and will release/have 2 back catalog titles (more specifically Dreamcast) available through it to start. These are supposed to be Crazy Taxi & PowerStone. We shall see though, I hope Sega will sustain in the long run and wish them the best, knowing how far they have fallen.

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Ya I kind of hope with all the money going into console gaming it will leak its online services to the PC, I mean I do not mind buying crap if I can play it and I so hate the limited control options on consoles...that and the bloated price...

Comment by: spamual (Jan 26, 2009 23:45)

DC was my fav console of ALL time.

and shemue was my fav game.

powerstone was a good beat em up, just way tooo shallow.

as soon as kill zone 2 and God of WAR3 for the PS3 comes out, we shoudl be able to unlock the potential there. sony are with KZ2 ebign released nect month, showing devs how to code properly, and roumers have it, that most multiplat games are moving over.

BTW the PC is alot harder to code for. well not code so to say as you just need to code for Direct X, OR Open GL, but optomise for as there are hundreds of thousands of configurations for a PC as far as software/hardware is concerned, where are consoles its only 1.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 27, 2009 02:56)

Originally posted by spamual:

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DC was my fav console of ALL time.

and shemue was my fav game.

powerstone was a good beat em up, just way tooo shallow.

as soon as kill zone 2 and God of WAR3 for the PS3 comes out, we shoudl be able to unlock the potential there. sony are with KZ2 ebign released nect month, showing devs how to code properly, and roumers have it, that most multiplat games are moving over.

BTW the PC is alot harder to code for. well not code so to say as you just need to code for Direct X, OR Open GL, but optomise for as there are hundreds of thousands of configurations for a PC as far as software/hardware is concerned, where are consoles its only 1.

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Not quite you see the PSX/PS2 has took about 4 years to get to 100% and they started at maybe 65% gaining about 10% every 1.5-2.5 years, the PS3 is a monster its start is more like 50% I mean look at disc/load issues for some first or 2nd gen PS3 games they got that dealt with and got some basic speed stuff going now and its been almost 3 years...its going to take another 3 or 4 for them to get the thing full;y optimized.

Comment by: Oner (Jan 27, 2009 03:08)

Zippy I see what you mean when. Though games like Resistance 1, Uncharted 1, Haze, Resistance 2, Killzone 2 and a couple others show it is not an issue for loading etc. (which is somewhat in line with your point but R1 was a launch title and U1 was an early release game as well)...I believe it all comes down to the proficiency of the dev's and what kind of product they ultimately want to put out.

I do agree that the 1st year to 2nd year PS2 titles where "faster" to get to a "higher/better" point, while the PS3 1st/2nd years are a bit "slower" but the 3rd year (not exactly as it really is maybe 2.25 year or so) with a game like KZ2 is looking to change the "game" so to speak. I give it until end of 09 and MAYBE early 2010 for them to have a "fair" optimization...but you know how Sony's Playstation line has always "grown" (especially towards the end, look at GoW3 PS2 as an example) so there will always be "more".

(Ya think I used enough "quotes" in this reply?...lol)

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Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 27, 2009 03:38)

Originally posted by Oner:

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Zippy I see what you mean when. Though games like Resistance 1, Uncharted 1, Haze, Resistance 2, Killzone 2 and a couple others show it is not an issue for loading etc. (which is somewhat in line with your point but R1 was a launch title and U1 was an early release game as well)...I believe it all comes down to the proficiency of the dev's and what kind of product they ultimately want to put out.

I do agree that the 1st year to 2nd year PS2 titles where "faster" to get to a "higher/better" point, while the PS3 1st/2nd years are a bit "slower" but the 3rd year (not exactly as it really is maybe 2.25 year or so) with a game like KZ2 is looking to change the "game" so to speak. I give it until end of 09 and MAYBE early 2010 for them to have a "fair" optimization...but you know how Sony's Playstation line has always "grown" (especially towards the end, look at GoW3 PS2 as an example) so there will always be "more".

(Ya think I used enough "quotes" in this reply?...lol)

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Well round it out and you get like numbers, the numbers are there for generalization examples anyway because the PS3 architecture is as it is you are going to have a slower more difficult time getting 100% optimization and that's only for the devs that give a damn about such things. I see the PS3 as having better hardware just alien to what the industry is use to and that will slow them perfecting of games on it.

Also you have a industry that's even less console specific than it was not 8-10 years ago, when you have less devs working solely on a console world wide you will have harder time finding all the bugs and nuances of the system from a devs perspective meaning the console maker more than ever has to head the charge to optimization more than ever.

It would have been interesting to see if they tried to evolve the 360 back before Blu ray won, if they did not screw up their product line with beta designs would they have focused on larger games on a new format? I still think it would be better for them to put a BR drive in new 360s offer to swap out current drives for for a small fee and move the platform up a notch so it will last another 4 years so they can properly develop a new system that has some form of BWC, open HDD and more polished media options.

Comment by: borhan9 (Jan 27, 2009 09:25)

It will be great to see SEGA back fighting strong :) I wish them well and i wish they get back into the console game again i loved their consoles.

Comment by: Oner (Jan 27, 2009 17:15)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Well round it out and you get like numbers, the numbers are there for generalization examples anyway because the PS3 architecture is as it is you are going to have a slower more difficult time getting 100% optimization and that's only for the devs that give a damn about such things. I see the PS3 as having better hardware just alien to what the industry is use to and that will slow them perfecting of games on it.

Also you have a industry that's even less console specific than it was not 8-10 years ago, when you have less devs working solely on a console world wide you will have harder time finding all the bugs and nuances of the system from a devs perspective meaning the console maker more than ever has to head the charge to optimization more than ever.

It would have been interesting to see if they tried to evolve the 360 back before Blu ray won, if they did not screw up their product line with beta designs would they have focused on larger games on a new format? I still think it would be better for them to put a BR drive in new 360s offer to swap out current drives for for a small fee and move the platform up a notch so it will last another 4 years so they can properly develop a new system that has some form of BWC, open HDD and more polished media options.

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Very good points and I agree that MS should have planned their console more for the consumer than themselves as they could have easily put in an HD-DVD drive and then the whole format war/console war would have been staggeringly different. But I believe (and no I don't have an aluminum/tin cap on right now) that MS uses a planned obsolescence business model, if you look at how over the years they have handled their Windows line of products it makes a hell of a lot of sense....

Originally posted by borhan9:

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It will be great to see SEGA back fighting strong :) I wish them well and i wish they get back into the console game again i loved their consoles.

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I think all real gamers truly wish/agree with that.

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Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 27, 2009 21:19)

Quote:

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Well round it out and you get like numbers, the numbers are there for generalization examples anyway because the PS3 architecture is as it is you are going to have a slower more difficult time getting 100% optimization and that's only for the devs that give a damn about such things. I see the PS3 as having better hardware just alien to what the industry is use to and that will slow them perfecting of games on it.

Also you have a industry that's even less console specific than it was not 8-10 years ago, when you have less devs working solely on a console world wide you will have harder time finding all the bugs and nuances of the system from a devs perspective meaning the console maker more than ever has to head the charge to optimization more than ever.

It would have been interesting to see if they tried to evolve the 360 back before Blu ray won, if they did not screw up their product line with beta designs would they have focused on larger games on a new format? I still think it would be better for them to put a BR drive in new 360s offer to swap out current drives for for a small fee and move the platform up a notch so it will last another 4 years so they can properly develop a new system that has some form of BWC, open HDD and more polished media options.

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Very good points and I agree that MS should have planned their console more for the consumer than themselves as they could have easily put in an HD-DVD drive and then the whole format war/console war would have been staggeringly different. But I believe (and no I don't have an aluminum/tin cap on right now) that MS uses a planned obsolescence business model, if you look at how over the years they have handled their Windows line of products it makes a hell of a lot of sense....

Originally posted by borhan9:

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It will be great to see SEGA back fighting strong :) I wish them well and i wish they get back into the console game again i loved their consoles.

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I think all real gamers truly wish/agree with that.

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Well Windose 7 seems to be more optimized than both vista and XP.

With the 360 they messed up they did not want it as a heavy media machine they didnt want to stream video they didn't think about alot of things. BWC was lost due to changing chipset makers and the old chipset maker would not ok them using the BWC system they had ready at the time of launch.


I think that if MS puts alil more foresight into it they can build a excellent system that's not so half assed as the 360.

I think buying a frimeware/hard drive upgrade on live for 10-15$ to change your hard drive with any SATA drive is acceptable, MS needs to look hard at what they are doing. Live for instance should completely free, only if you choose the subscription you get more "free" downloads/specials and points or point cost reduction to spend. They could sale 2 or 3 levels of this with 10$ ,25$ and 45$ points a year or 5%,10% and 35% off all points purchased this plans can start at 5$/M-50$/Y,15$/M-125$/Y and 25$/M and 175$ a year, I think MS would make more money from this than making gold and free Live standards so different as they are now.

You can make a system that can gain revenue and not be stupid on those that buy it.

Its better than the locked and limited setup they have now...

Comment by: DXR88 (Jan 28, 2009 00:15)

Zippy u can upgrade the hdd its not as simple as sony's slap it in play method, but it works.

http://www.gamerwok.com/archives/786

that link has the info and list of tools you need, HDD selection is as important as it was with Xbox1. Western Digital and Seagate's HDD seem to be the most successful