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PS3 to sell at a profit in 2009?

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DVDBack23 @ Dec 24, 2008 08:07 | 25 comments

iSupply has reported that they believe the Sony PlayStation 3 will sell for a profit in 2009, assuming that the Yen stops gaining traction on the USD.

At launch, in 2006, the 60GB PS3 cost $840 USD to produce and still cost over $800 USD to make as late as 2007, according to iSupply. Today though, the 80GB PS3 costs about $448 USD to produce.

The report says "two key chips in the PS3 have moved on to more advanced manufacturing technology. In 2006, the main chips in the console, like the Cell processor and the Nvidia (NVDA) Reality Synthesizer, which handles graphics, were built on 90-nanometer manufacturing technology. Now they're even smaller, and are built on 65-nanometer processes, meaning they cost less to make than before. ISuppli estimates the Cell chip costs Sony $46, down from the $64 in 2007, and $89 in 2006.

The Nvidia chip has come down in price, too. It now costs $58, down from $83 last year, and $129 in 2006. In both cases, Rassweiler says, the chips have been significantly redesigned with new features for functions that used to be handled by separate chips inside the system, which also helps reduce costs.

And smaller chips require less power. That means Sony now ships the device with a less beefy—and less expensive—power supply that costs $21.50, vs. $30.75 before."

That being said, the production costs will continue to drop and if the Yen loses value against the dollar in the next year, iSupply estimates that the PS3 will be profitable in 2009, barring any price cuts of course.

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Comments

Comment by: slickwill (Dec 24, 2008 09:13)

Yen, if you have been keeping track of the yen vs dollar value, it has dropped considerably. 100 yen will exchange to $1.10, it used to be around $0.88 for the longest of times.

Comment by: kikzm33z (Dec 24, 2008 12:42)

Nice... So 2009 IS a good year for Sony.

Comment by: muccione (Dec 24, 2008 14:30)

Originally posted by slickwill:
Yen, if you have been keeping track of the yen vs dollar value, it has dropped considerably. 100 yen will exchange to $1.10, it used to be around $0.88 for the longest of times.

HELLO.....THAN MEANS THE YEN IS WORTH MORE....THE DOLLAR IS WORTH .10 LESS...YOU MUST WORK FOR BREAK.COM

Comment by: Interestx (Dec 24, 2008 15:26)

Good God!

That ancient (at least 4 gens old) old Nvidia 7800/7900GS GPU chip in the PS3 is supposed to be still 'worth' $58 nowadays!?

Comment by: core2kid (Dec 24, 2008 16:53)

My 2 cents:
I hate this generation of video games. It's all about competition and FPS type games. Very few adventure and good old fun. My favorite generations were PS1 & N64/PS2, GC, XBOX generation.

Comment by: subpopz (Dec 24, 2008 17:06)

Pah! You gotta go back another generation for the best era of gaming. SNES & Genesis days were by far the best.

Comment by: core2kid (Dec 24, 2008 17:23)

Originally posted by subpopz:
Pah! You gotta go back another generation for the best era of gaming. SNES & Genesis days were by far the best.

I have a Genesis but no SNES so I can't comment on that generation. It must be better than the current generation though.

Comment by: Tecbot (Dec 24, 2008 19:00)

the older ps3 also had like 4000 pieces now they have like 2500 pieces in them...

I dont mind older generation games but honestly you guys probably havent played half the games out if you think there is only shooters in the market

Comment by: TheftAuto (Dec 24, 2008 19:57)

Quote:
Originally posted by slickwill:
Yen, if you have been keeping track of the yen vs dollar value, it has dropped considerably. 100 yen will exchange to $1.10, it used to be around $0.88 for the longest of times.
HELLO.....THAN MEANS THE YEN IS WORTH MORE....THE DOLLAR IS WORTH .10 LESS...YOU MUST WORK FOR BREAK.COM

No you are an idiot and your math is flawed.

That is 100 Yen, not 1 Yen.

100 Yen would give you 88 cents US
But now, the Yen is worth more
100 Yen would give you 1.10 US
1 dollar US is still worth much more than 1 Yen.
Countries with really low dollars, don't print off 1's because the paper is almost worth more, instead they print of 100s, 1000s, and in some places 10 000 is there base bill.

Comment by: canuckerz (Dec 25, 2008 02:51)

Originally posted by Interestx:
Good God!

That ancient (at least 4 gens old) old Nvidia 7800/7900GS GPU chip in the PS3 is supposed to be still 'worth' $58 nowadays!?

Thats just its equivilent in raw power, the RSX is a bit more than an off the shelf graphics card.

Comment by: rvinkebob (Dec 25, 2008 07:48)

Originally posted by Interestx:
Good God!

That ancient (at least 4 gens old) old Nvidia 7800/7900GS GPU chip in the PS3 is supposed to be still 'worth' $58 nowadays!?

And you do know that a 7600GS is still $100+, right? Though I agree that it's barbaric considering how much more performance you get per dollar out of today's cards.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Dec 25, 2008 12:50)

Originally posted by core2kid:
My 2 cents:
I hate this generation of video games. It's all about competition and FPS type games. Very few adventure and good old fun. My favorite generations were PS1 & N64/PS2, GC, XBOX generation.

I like FPS's and even I hate this generation, why? qaulity, everythign is rushed and offers less content, sorry online bugs..er...features and DLC that should be in a completed game dose not count....

Hell if they did more adventure stuff it would all suck as they are pumping out low qaulity for the price products.

The SNES was like the PS2...only better :P
-------------------

The PS3 still has the most hardware power potential, the 360 is a joke on many grounds hardware/hardware qaulity,fail rates,ect,ect its a powerful enough but it will be replaced in 2-4 years while the PS3 should be around for 4-10 depending on if they don't piss off developers like the Saturn did, don't get me wrong the 360 is half right in using PC parts as a base but good lord the heating issues are just silly....

Anyway got a thread over at the ECA forums about the future potential of consoles being replaced by OSs that use 20-50% of new computer hardware, instead of the console maker spending millions/billions on deving and selling the hardware have PC vendors partner with the console makers and they build the units that will sale like normal consoles but they are just mini pcs with the OS preinstalled, sell the OS for 300 or so a pop separately since custom console hardware is becoming insane to upkeep.

edit, forgot link
http://forums.theeca.com/showthread.php?t=5426

Comment by: blueroad (Dec 25, 2008 19:01)

i partially agree with zippy. this generation does suck but though more because of hardware than of software. the Wii is a total joke and an insult to a gamer-not because of the unique gameplay but but because of the total disregard for the needs of the core gamers. how do i know for sure ? they care more for the money than the average person (not suprising u say,i kno). one might remember they stated not too recently that they will launch a new edition of the Wii this time as a true enetertainment center with HD capabilities, big HDD and everything one may get from the xbox and PS3. but they also state it would happen only in ~2011 -why? they wanna first rip non gamers money first then issue a new edition to makem buy it if they wanna hav the latest and most advance piece of tech..same with how they doing just now with the DSi..disgusting.PS3 is a rea let down cause of high prices for really not too much gain..you buy a console that cost the most and ou get the least -movie rentals would cost u money wen u can jus dl nd watch them game addons tht cost money..and the lowest amount of games worth buying across the board. xbox is a pretty handy console..but the RROD really isnt worth the risk..waiting for the new thing to come out ..

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Dec 25, 2008 20:21)

Originally posted by blueroad:
i partially agree with zippy. this generation does suck but though more because of hardware than of software. the Wii is a total joke and an insult to a gamer-not because of the unique gameplay but but because of the total disregard for the needs of the core gamers. how do i know for sure ? they care more for the money than the average person (not suprising u say,i kno). one might remember they stated not too recently that they will launch a new edition of the Wii this time as a true enetertainment center with HD capabilities, big HDD and everything one may get from the xbox and PS3. but they also state it would happen only in ~2011 -why? they wanna first rip non gamers money first then issue a new edition to makem buy it if they wanna hav the latest and most advance piece of tech..same with how they doing just now with the DSi..disgusting.PS3 is a rea let down cause of high prices for really not too much gain..you buy a console that cost the most and ou get the least -movie rentals would cost u money wen u can jus dl nd watch them game addons tht cost money..and the lowest amount of games worth buying across the board. xbox is a pretty handy console..but the RROD really isnt worth the risk..waiting for the new thing to come out ..

Meh the WII lacks only really 2 things HD support with a simple resolution boost the game would look cleaner but frankly its a moot feature the WII is no HD gaming and dose not need it, IMO the motion sensing not being very sensitive is more of a a issue and the WII is awash in shovel ware for the masses but frankly the industry is awash in shovleware so I see no real difference .

The WII looks fine forget HD its just redundant eye candy.

The 360 biggest caveat is the bad hardware past that its strong enough to do the medium well enough but the locked hardware and live subscription hurt it.

The PS3 is well built but alil miss focused in its direction that with the "decline" of gaming(take the context as you will) its going to have a rough time.

The game industry is to focused on graphics,shovleware and rushed dev cycles.....

Comment by: emugamer (Dec 26, 2008 18:04)

Quote:
Originally posted by blueroad:
i partially agree with zippy. this generation does suck but though more because of hardware than of software. the Wii is a total joke and an insult to a gamer-not because of the unique gameplay but but because of the total disregard for the needs of the core gamers. how do i know for sure ? they care more for the money than the average person (not suprising u say,i kno). one might remember they stated not too recently that they will launch a new edition of the Wii this time as a true enetertainment center with HD capabilities, big HDD and everything one may get from the xbox and PS3. but they also state it would happen only in ~2011 -why? they wanna first rip non gamers money first then issue a new edition to makem buy it if they wanna hav the latest and most advance piece of tech..same with how they doing just now with the DSi..disgusting.PS3 is a rea let down cause of high prices for really not too much gain..you buy a console that cost the most and ou get the least -movie rentals would cost u money wen u can jus dl nd watch them game addons tht cost money..and the lowest amount of games worth buying across the board. xbox is a pretty handy console..but the RROD really isnt worth the risk..waiting for the new thing to come out ..
Meh the WII lacks only really 2 things HD support with a simple resolution boost the game would look cleaner but frankly its a moot feature the WII is no HD gaming and dose not need it, IMO the motion sensing not being very sensitive is more of a a issue and the WII is awash in shovel ware for the masses but frankly the industry is awash in shovleware so I see no real difference .

The WII looks fine forget HD its just redundant eye candy.

The 360 biggest caveat is the bad hardware past that its strong enough to do the medium well enough but the locked hardware and live subscription hurt it.

The PS3 is well built but alil miss focused in its direction that with the "decline" of gaming(take the context as you will) its going to have a rough time.

The game industry is to focused on graphics,shovleware and rushed dev cycles.....

Nintendo is definitely milking the masses with "shovelware" as Zippy puts it. Most of the industry is the same, but I don't agree that it's all the same. The HD is a must IMO (especially for me regarding the Wii vs the 360 and PS3). Unfortunately, it's been abused to a point where it's become no more than “lipstick on a pig” (most over-used expression in 2008….well, that and “fan-boy”). But there are games (although few) that have made use of the graphics and hardware capabilities to produce true masterpieces. Whether it's character movement, complexity of the environment or character interaction with the environment, I’m sure we can all agree that you need beefier hardware to achieve better results. But I feel that the graphics should wrap up the experience and bring it all together. I’ve lost all interest in Nintendo just because it was not HD and the titles bored me. While I don’t buy games just for graphics, it is important for me to see something new as well as experience it. Paying $250 for what was pretty much just a new controller when the Wii was released was not worth it for me (I actually bought it, played it for a couple of weeks and returned it). Spending $150 more on a console that has the potential to do so much more was the better choice. SNES was great for it’s time and my favorite system for quite a few generations. I vote for SNES hands down over the Wii. But it’s difficult to compare the PS3 to any of its predecessors. Only because games have the potential to be deeper on so many more levels. The social aspect of gaming is evolving with this generation to something that we have never seen before. Although only a handful of games have really shown us a winning combination of story, graphics, innovation, and longevity, the ones that have are amazing. Little Big Planet alone is a creative masterpiece IMO. To enjoy it though, one needs to think in a different way - realize that certain boundaries in gameplay have been broken. It’s all I’ve been playing since it came out. It’s the most entertaining game my family and I have played in a very long time. The ability to create your own worlds is not only a brilliant idea, but extremely well executed.

I don’t mind the download packs for games, as long as the original provided me with enough entertainment value to make it worth the initial $60, or whatever I paid for it used. I do think it’s ridiculous though to have to buy “clothing” for characters in games. I personally think that certain games should be developed with the ability to update with DLC through the life of the console, instead of releasing a disc year after year. Burnout is one of them that has successfully done this. So far all of the DLC has been free. The motorbike pack was entertaining – good enough for being free. I hope that their next party pack and car pack deliver. I wouldn’t pay money for a car pack unless there was more re-play value to the game, and TBH, I’ve already played the tar out of it this past year, just shy of Elite. If they extend the City and charge $15 - $20 for it, I would gladly pay. I think sports games should follow the same pattern. No more MLB, NBA Madden 06, 07, 08, 09,10…..please, those days should be over…..just create DLC content or updates to enhance the game. How many people pay $60/year on a sports series? I’m still playing MLB 07 and NHL 08. No plans on buying a new baseball or hockey game. But if DLC was available for these games once a year, I would pay up to $15 if it was a decent addition. If they can get $15 from every person who purchased the disc the previous year, they would make a killing. If done right, DLC for games can be extremely profitable and convenient.

A year ago, I also thought that this gen was pretty unimpressive. But the games that meet my expectations have been slowly appearing. I’m happy to see that sequels are getting better. Games that could have done better are being modified with the latest features that firmware updates have to offer. I’m very happy with Pacific Rift. The only games on my radar now are SF IV, Uncharted 2 and Skate 2. I know that they alone will keep me occupied for a very long time, so I don’t really care how many other games Sony puts out next year. Quality over quantity.

I see a good year for the PS3. Even with the economy falling apart. I don’t see a price cut though, until they start seeing a profit on their consoles. We shall see at the end of their fiscal year.

Comment by: Globe08 (Dec 26, 2008 19:12)

Great post ^^^^^^

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Dec 26, 2008 19:15)

emugamer
Yes Nin is milking the shovleware but frankly so is everyone look at the majority of the supposed "real" games and tell me they are not rushed and underdeveloped to a point it needs to be eye candy to sell.

I discount beefier hardware altogether, the WII would be great if the games had effort put into them but they don't and neither dose the majority of the games from the industry.

We don't need beefier system and better looking games we need better interaction with the game world,better gameplay,better story,ect,ect.

I can't name a game thats worth 50$ + online fees, hell Fallout 3 is a extended 20$ romp its almsot the same as the rest but only longer ><

The online aspect of gaming is under used, I think Left for dead is the first real campaign based multi player game, co op is still under sued its kinda sad they are forgetting so much focusing on rushed SP and "deathamtch" experiences.

DLC is all well and fine but holly hell whole game is lacking most of the time.

Like always you need all the systems for all the best games but there are less and less really good games and more so so and shovleware games that are rushed to market as so the publishers can stay in cocaine...

Comment by: emugamer (Dec 26, 2008 19:54)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
emugamer
Yes Nin is milking the shovleware but frankly so is everyone look at the majority of the supposed "real" games and tell me they are not rushed and underdeveloped to a point it needs to be eye candy to sell.

I discount beefier hardware altogether, the WII would be great if the games had effort put into them but they don't and neither dose the majority of the games from the industry.

We don't need beefier system and better looking games we need better interaction with the game world,better gameplay,better story,ect,ect.

I can't name a game thats worth 50$ + online fees, hell Fallout 3 is a extended 20$ romp its almsot the same as the rest but only longer ><

The online aspect of gaming is under used, I think Left for dead is the first real campaign based multi player game, co op is still under sued its kinda sad they are forgetting so much focusing on rushed SP and "deathamtch" experiences.

DLC is all well and fine but holly hell whole game is lacking most of the time.

Like always you need all the systems for all the best games but there are less and less really good games and more so so and shovleware games that are rushed to market as so the publishers can stay in cocaine...

I guess it all comes down what what each individual looks for in a game. I can't comment on the ones you mentioned. They don't interest me. But I have been sorely disappointed in many demos recently. The latest one being LOTR that I downloaded last night. Perfect example of a piece of crap with a bow around it. I was also disappointed with the first snowboarding game to arrive for the PS3. My collection of PS3 games is relatively small, but I've been satisfied with them. And even some of the so-so ones downloadable from the PSN for $10 each serve me as good "filler" games for the times that I just want to veg out for a few minutes and not get too invested. The only one that I feel is worth the new pricetag of $59 is LBP.

The Gamecube could have been great if the games had effort put into them. The Wii is no different than that console IMO besides the obvious difference in controller and the vigorous "family demographic" spamming. The hardware specs of the Wii are allowing developers to take the easy road and produce this monotony that we see. If the Wii was up to spec with the rest, Nintendo would have been forced to work a little harder to make their exclusives worth opening your wallet for. Another generation of the same Mario and Link does nothing for me. I'd rather grab a popcap or real arcade game than buy a Wii.

I agree that the hardware is nothing without the quality games, and unfortunately there are few games for the beefier systems that measure up to what they should be. But I still need the whole package of both innovation and graphics. I can't settle with one over the other. I can spot a pig in lipstick, but I also feel disappointed in games that are very well done in every area except the graphics. I feel like with the PS3 and all of it's short-comings I can point out, I've personally finally started to find what I've been looking for to satisfy my gaming needs. And looking forward, it seems like it will just get better.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Dec 26, 2008 20:27)

Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
emugamer
Yes Nin is milking the shovleware but frankly so is everyone look at the majority of the supposed "real" games and tell me they are not rushed and underdeveloped to a point it needs to be eye candy to sell.

I discount beefier hardware altogether, the WII would be great if the games had effort put into them but they don't and neither dose the majority of the games from the industry.

We don't need beefier system and better looking games we need better interaction with the game world,better gameplay,better story,ect,ect.

I can't name a game thats worth 50$ + online fees, hell Fallout 3 is a extended 20$ romp its almsot the same as the rest but only longer ><

The online aspect of gaming is under used, I think Left for dead is the first real campaign based multi player game, co op is still under sued its kinda sad they are forgetting so much focusing on rushed SP and "deathamtch" experiences.

DLC is all well and fine but holly hell whole game is lacking most of the time.

Like always you need all the systems for all the best games but there are less and less really good games and more so so and shovleware games that are rushed to market as so the publishers can stay in cocaine...
I guess it all comes down what what each individual looks for in a game. I can't comment on the ones you mentioned. They don't interest me. But I have been sorely disappointed in many demos recently. The latest one being LOTR that I downloaded last night. Perfect example of a piece of crap with a bow around it. I was also disappointed with the first snowboarding game to arrive for the PS3. My collection of PS3 games is relatively small, but I've been satisfied with them. And even some of the so-so ones downloadable from the PSN for $10 each serve me as good "filler" games for the times that I just want to veg out for a few minutes and not get too invested. The only one that I feel is worth the new pricetag of $59 is LBP.

The Gamecube could have been great if the games had effort put into them. The Wii is no different than that console IMO besides the obvious difference in controller and the vigorous "family demographic" spamming. The hardware specs of the Wii are allowing developers to take the easy road and produce this monotony that we see. If the Wii was up to spec with the rest, Nintendo would have been forced to work a little harder to make their exclusives worth opening your wallet for. Another generation of the same Mario and Link does nothing for me. I'd rather grab a popcap or real arcade game than buy a Wii.

I agree that the hardware is nothing without the quality games, and unfortunately there are few games for the beefier systems that measure up to what they should be. But I still need the whole package of both innovation and graphics. I can't settle with one over the other. I can spot a pig in lipstick, but I also feel disappointed in games that are very well done in every area except the graphics. I feel like with the PS3 and all of it's short-comings I can point out, I've personally finally started to find what I've been looking for to satisfy my gaming needs. And looking forward, it seems like it will just get better.

I dunno the GC was their first true next gen system after being "left behind" by the PSX so all in all it could have been worse, the is nice but is suffering from the short sightedness in today's game industry.

Putting aside the 360 and PS3s issue they have a fair selection of games but IMO its not worth a grand to own them all and a few titles that are not up to snuff. Quality has fallen to "mass production" levels with no real standardization in customizable settings and options.

With the current price of games paying more than 200 with tax and a game for a system is just ridiculous unless you have loads of money and not alot of time to peal away the paint to see the complete lack of substance in most games....

Comment by: xblade132 (Dec 28, 2008 13:46)

I hate any generation of console gaming with fanboys. >.<

"My console is better than your console! Your console sucks! I hate your console!"

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Dec 28, 2008 16:53)

Originally posted by xblade132:
I hate any generation of console gaming with fanboys. >.<

"My console is better than your console! Your console sucks! I hate your console!"

Thats all generations, oy the SNES/Genisis days started it 0-o

Comment by: rivs (Dec 28, 2008 17:10)

thats impresive

Chris Rivers

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Dec 28, 2008 17:14)

Originally posted by rivs:
thats impresive

Even back then you needed both to get all the good games but you could do without and still have alot of decent games...now adays you need them all just to have a few decent games....

Fallout 3 has stole my soul.
Yes it is a action focused FPS RPG but at least its a FPS RPG not a poorly deved shooter like Bioshock!
------
Taking notes to tweak FO3 when they launch the C.K.
http://tinyurl.com/zippyfo3iedas

Comment by: autolycus (Dec 30, 2008 17:50)

Okay there is a lot of mis informed information floating about here.

The problem with all of these systems is that developers don't know how to write the code to split every single process on any available processor.

Until one of these companies (Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony) come up with the worlds best compiler, it's never going to happen. Even with XNA, multiprocessors are still being completely wasted. Games are still being written for single core logic.

No game system on the market today is high def. Sure they offer high-def resolutions, but what good does a 1920x1080p picture do you, when everything in the game (the textures) are still in 480p resolution? As much as I love NVidia, they still dont offer a GPU chipset that can work with 1080p textures without bogging down everything else (memory, cpu, buses, etc).

For those of you who don't really know how the CeLL works, it has 1 full coree (SPE) that is in control of tasking the other 7 spe's (which are just MATHCO processors, not full processors). While this makes good use of developers having to worry about writing to which core to for what tasks, the instruction set has to be sent to the managing core in which the core waits for an avaiable mathco processor before it sends the job off to the next available core.

Now in Cell's theory, it should be a power house and with small burst processing (just numbers, small calculations and easy IF/THENS) it is amazing. But games don't work like this. One procedure is inside another procedure, which is called from another procedure, which in turn is pointed to another procedure to find out if that object should be viewable or not, meaning that all these processes take much longer CPU time then what the CELL was intended for. Now the Sony developer needs to take all this code and make sure that everything is "in order" since the Cell doesn't allow for out of order processing. Meaning that to display if that object is viewable, you have to have one procedure and result for every single instance of the above mentioned loop.

Now don't get me wrong, developers have been able to pull some punches when it comes to PS3. Metal gear solid 4 uses raw textures (which is the only reason why a blu-ray disc was needed, plus the MPG4 wasn't even compressed its literally in RAW format, which is a space hog beyond belief) looked great and LBP seems to do a great job with camera's and focus to give it that different feel. HOWEVER, what good does it do releasing a system that is so unique that developers and studio's have to bend over backwards, relearn EVERYTHING to take advantage of the PS3, all while killing a HUGE chunk of possible revenue by alienating the XBOX 360.

Okay seriously I could probably write another article on what is wrong with the 360, but I have a job to do. Hope you enjoyed my reading:) and for the record, I purchase MAYBE 2 games a year. This year it was Fallout 3, Forza 2 (or was that 2007?) and I think that's it. These games better offer a whole lot of gameplay time for 60 hard earned dollars!

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Dec 30, 2008 18:13)

autolycus
I'll agree to the fact coding is rather sloppy, but thats only due to development begin sloppy.

Consoles have gotten away from highly tuned software development and it shows.

Even upscaled in a frankenstien way the HD mode to the PS3 and 360 do look better but I think the point is missed instead of focusing on shallow graphics and OTT visuals why not try and do more in the screen be it physics or visual tricks other than motion blur and 3 shades of gray/brown.

The PS3 is a mess but I think they are refining the software development for it at least alil more than the rest are spewing out, it will be interesting if they can tap into its full potential power wise but I doubt it they will manage and frankly I think its doing well enough considering the general disregard developers have for quality beyond looks and basic interface/control.

Also you bring to light one of the reasons why the console war model is antiquated and on its way out unless as software developers can no longer afford to make multimillion dollar games for a single system between it and hardware costs the console war model will have to change to keep up appearances, that change being either be selling the designs out to vendors or going with a OS based system built around core PC technologyies who knows.

F03 is about 30 hours long unless you can stand its flaws and that’s not too bad.