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Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 19, 2007 22:00)

I have known this for months,the WII is beating everyone on innovation (as rusty as it may be) and price alone.

The 360 has been hit hard but the fail rate but has forever set its niche as number 2 world wide, the only question remains when will the WII run out of steam and when will the PS3 be able to replace it,without a foundation in asia the 360 can never play anything but 2nd fiddle in a full scale console war..

Comment by: salsa36 (Aug 19, 2007 22:53)

Quote:

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without a foundation in asia the 360 can never play anything but 2nd fiddle in a full scale console war..

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That will never happen, they will support their products and brands.

Here, we don't care, (just ask how many people drive a KIA or any other asian vehicle), we just care about price and and nothing else.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 19, 2007 23:01)

Quote:

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Quote:

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without a foundation in asia the 360 can never play anything but 2nd fiddle in a full scale console war..

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That will never happen, they will support their products and brands.

Here, we don't care, (just ask how many people drive a KIA or any other asian vehicle), we just care about price and and nothing else.

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What I mean by foundation is setup a publishing shop to port and dev games for the 360 in asia and japan they could then localize them to the US/UK and be able to fight NIN and sony on a equal footing.


The 360 is awash is US PC style games nothing asia would go out of its way for.

Comment by: SProdigy (Aug 20, 2007 10:13)

Zippy, I don't mean to attack you, but what DOESN'T get released on console and PC these days? If the 360 played "PC Style Games" like you say in every post, then it would come with a mouse and keyboard. I say the 360 library is the best so far, and if it's because of "PC Style Games," then Sony needs to re-evaluate their strategy, because they have NO GAMES.

Honestly, the lines have become so blurred between console and PC, with the exception of the "Mega PC game release that requires a $6000 PC with dual GFX cards" or "Pac-man", then how on earth do you differentiate the two? Just because the 360 is playing host to more FPS, racing and action games, doesn't mean it's a PC or that those are PC games. Titles often get released for PC later, but even GTA was on PC. It's also no secret that the Xbox 1 was positioned so that games could be ported to either PC or that console (Doom 3?)

I say the difference maker will be games like Mario Galaxy, that you know have no chance of going onto a PC, unless someone busts out an emulator in a few years. Ultimately, the library coming up for the Wii is where it's at, because consumers can buy the system cheaper, and know that they cannot get franchise titles like Mario, Zelda, and Metroid anywhere else.

Comment by: salsa36 (Aug 20, 2007 10:15)

I was not critizicing, I agree with the comment Zippy. However, I believe that no matter how good the US game or US console is, it would never make it in asia, just because of that, the made in USA factor....

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 20, 2007 10:34)

SProdigy

"Let go of the your hatred and feel the force"

Follow my train of thought if you dare,the 360 follows the Xbox in its over all style of games, now compare that to the PS2 that has games mostly made in Asia(lets say 30-40%) and BOOM once you do the math the PS2 had the most support game wise while the Xbox got some solid games that were either on the PC or were going to the PC(amount of Asia based games 5-20%) follow that trend the 360 thus is US PC style of gaming for the 360 like nintendo style gaming is for the WII.

What I am getting at the 360 can not do well on a world wide basis without Asia,in order to get into Asia they will need support of Asia devs which they are not getting.

The 360 like the Xbox is a cute but solid system(mostly hardcore US style of gaming) but throughly shallow in its variety of games,the PS3 is not even out of the crib yet so lets forget about it till it sales 9milloin units world wide,the WII is strong for its games that are varied and have that style of gaming Nintendo and sony have been deving over the years,the price is helping it sale a extra 20-40% on my wildedly poor estimate.


Again the 360 despite its issues is a solid system however it has yet to leave its niche of US PC style gaming the main reason for this is 3rd party Asian devs wont dev for it, without them a console is merely a 3rd wheel on the world stage.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 20, 2007 11:19)

Well,well in a full scale console war anyway, if it were not for the hardware issues I might could say they are doing great ,but meh add things up and its my 2nd choice for a console.

if by then end of next year the PS3 has improved enough to be worth while I might get it before a 360 but its going to take the PS3 twice as long to mature than the 360 did.....

Comment by: SProdigy (Aug 20, 2007 12:05)

Saying that the PS3 is not out of the crib yet is a weak argument, as it launched a week before the Wii and the Wii has already caught up to the 360 in units sold.

It's true that Asian developers are not hopping on board with the 360, but I don't see them making a whole lot for the PS3 either. In fact, what are they making these days? Konami has been releasing games for the Xbox before it was the 360 (all of the DDR renditions and MGS remakes; MGS4 will be on 360 too, mark my words.) Sega's all over the board. Square Enix? Will another Final Fantasy turn enough heads to get the PS3 the boost it needs? I say it depends, but it's no more than a genre taste, and MS has their own flavor with Halo 3. Capcom is making Devil May Cry multi-platform, and they've done the same in the past with Resident Evil.

I see all of these games coming out for 360 (Crackdown, Bioshock, Shadowgate, PGR4) and anything Sony's getting, so is the 360 (for the most part.)

Let's not forget that Rockstar and EA aren't in Asia, and I would argue their sales have outpaced just about anyone (sans Nintendo.)

So how does this "Asian Dev" theory hold up, when the 360 is getting those games already? I understand that the system is not selling in that territory, but to say they are not supported is an understatement.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 20, 2007 12:49)

SProdigy

First off,games are still being made on the PS2 and GC and even Xbox,the 360 has not really garnered full attention of devs world wide mostly a select few from asia,and mostly PC ports and US/UK devs,its doing well for what it is a US based console with a solid UK foundation.

Now where was I knomai/capcom/S.E/any other large Japaneses maker that kinda makes games for both systems are what I call 2nd party they only make a few if any games for 1 system the rest they spam out in the hopes they will make more moeny off it they are not really what I am talking abotu its the masses of mediocre 3rd party games and non sucky first/2nd party games that make a system for me the 360 is stuck in rut the Xbox made fashionably this is my main gripe with it (others being no cheat device because MS are prudes,lack of supported KB and mouse support for me to enjoy my FPS's).

Or are you saying you do not see the 360 having a style of tis own that sets it apart from the DC,GC,PS2,Xbox?

The PS3 came out a month or so behind the WII and its not sold 5 million consoles yet not even hit a full 2nd wave of games and the games are still mostly unoptimized for the PS3 its going to take another 15 months for the PS3 to grow some teeth and be worth looking at again....

The WII is dominating and should should reign for another 22 months easily, most devs are jumping on the WII and I have a feelign thats where all the 3rd party games will game with the 360 and PS3 only having their exclusives to save them.

Again Asian devs not the top 4 or 5 its all the lil companies who will gang up and make games for one system that will make or break the system for now they seem to be gathering on the WII while the PS3 has a couple exclusives and a few multi console titles while the 360 simply has its PC base and its exclusive titles.

Also when the main 3 release ALL their games on both system that would help bring the 360 up but with out FF or MGS they are goign to lose 5-20% in sales to the PS3

If it helps I'll break down how I see the systems
(Asia counts for all devs while japan forces on the larger Asian devs)
PS3 Multi/japan/asia
360 Multi/PC/Asia
WII Japan/Asia/Multi

they systems are different in game style with the WII and the PS3 being close in the style of games released for it,the 360 is mostly a PC/multi console,console thats in my view a handicapped PC.



BTW what do you think abotu MS and the coming HDD issues with games? the larger they get the harder it will be for a game to run on a core and MS dose not want multi disc games on their system it seems.

I hope MS spams out 20GB HDDs for 50 or less by flooding the market with cheap HDD kits they can have devs focus on bringing out the best in their games and not waste time and money on getting it to work on a core unit.

Comment by: SProdigy (Aug 20, 2007 14:45)

I'll make an argument and say that devs will never fully utilize that 9 core monster, Cell processor, because there are traditional PC software makers that cannot even get the most out of Core 2 Duo right now.

There are many arguments about disc space, etc. but DVD-9 seems to be more than plenty unless a dev throws too much extra crap, such as fmv on a disc. I bought a Core, but not without the realization that I would need a HDD down the road (and of course I bought one just months before the larger drive was released... grr...) I would think that from an MS standpoint, they have the games library down pact, the "suits" are just scratching their heads as to why they cannot penetrate the Japanese market. (Short answer: they are not a Japanese company with a loyal following named Nintendo or Sony.)

I think the main point is, Nintendo is succeeding because of price point, familiarity with its brand and franchise games, simplicity of using, and because you don't "need" to add on [insert attachment here]. Because it comes with a game and full controller set, people see more of a value. Hell, you still can't find one anywhere.

PS. BTW, didn't realize in the last post, but the US PS3 launch was 3 days before the Wii, not a week.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Aug 20, 2007 17:10)

Originally posted by SProdigy:

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I'll make an argument and say that devs will never fully utilize that 9 core monster, Cell processor, because there are traditional PC software makers that cannot even get the most out of Core 2 Duo right now.

There are many arguments about disc space, etc. but DVD-9 seems to be more than plenty unless a dev throws too much extra crap, such as fmv on a disc. I bought a Core, but not without the realization that I would need a HDD down the road (and of course I bought one just months before the larger drive was released... grr...) I would think that from an MS standpoint, they have the games library down pact, the "suits" are just scratching their heads as to why they cannot penetrate the Japanese market. (Short answer: they are not a Japanese company with a loyal following named Nintendo or Sony.)

I think the main point is, Nintendo is succeeding because of price point, familiarity with its brand and franchise games, simplicity of using, and because you don't "need" to add on [insert attachment here]. Because it comes with a game and full controller set, people see more of a value. Hell, you still can't find one anywhere.

PS. BTW, didn't realize in the last post, but the US PS3 launch was 3 days before the Wii, not a week.

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Nice,sorry I always get my dates and time alil off, I think the 360 is as prefect as it could be in trems of libary thus why its my 2nd choice however it could grow a bit more in variety and even ms has managed to get a couple J rpgs on it however for asian penetration its going to take mroe than that :P, and ya its not a Jp company so its ignored but the lack of games from thos regions is also not helping things,if MS wants asia its going to have to build a base and do price drops go in guns blazing and spend 5-20 billion a price prehaps to high but the only quick way in it.

Size matters but only to a point after that its jsut "fat" look at PGR and you will see size will matter however helpfully most devs will be able to show more restraint and get multi console games more or less even with each other,from what I have seen optimizations are coming slow and every other game runs better on the 360 and vice versa its goign to be a few months before all the games show basic optimizations to run well on the PS3.

But the PS3 is pretty much going through growing pains and tis a ugly sight I am much more interested in how devs and MS them self will handle the HDD issue, in the coming months thats going to play more of a role in gaming on the 360 with games getting bigger and bigger lil by lil and I see no plans to use multi discs I suppose the reason for it its a online system and most games are online thus a multi disc game would be a "bad" idea but at the same time in 10-30 months more games get put on the PS3 and lil by lil games will show to have PS3 exclusives due to the space issues MS is goign to have to do something about it or automatically fall early to the 3rd position.


I wonder what MS has up its sleeve will they ignore it will launch a HDD assault and try and fill the cores with cheap HDD kits,I dunno and sony has things it needs to do but is not doing it the price of the PS3 is laughable games are coming(nothing that I drool for yet) they are supporting their devs and they are working hard on optimizing for code for the PS3,however if the price stays at 600 it all for naught.

Comment by: borhan9 (Aug 22, 2007 01:46)

This article could be updated everyday. VG numbers go up everyday and this article is no surprise.