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Comment by: plazma247 (Jul 01, 2007 19:22)

Originally posted by sammorris:

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I'm not saying the Saturn was a bad console, far from it, but Sega messed up the launch badly, and the support for it dried up very quickly.

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This was largely due to two reasons:

1. Sega was already on its last legs financially and struggled to challenge the nes and snes in America.

2. Nintendo force/persuaded lots of games creators to only code for Nintendo systems and shut down the titles that would be available on other consoles.

Comment by: sammorris (Jul 01, 2007 19:32)

Quote:

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Sega was already on its last legs financially and struggled to challenge the nes and snes in America.

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If that was the case, how come they managed to design and sell the Dreamcast?

Comment by: plazma247 (Jul 01, 2007 19:38)

Doh forgive me cheif i was thinking of the dreamcast when it came to the money.

But O belive the lock down of software houses actually started with the saturn and was fully inforce by the time of the dreamcast.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 01, 2007 19:42)

Quote:

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Originally posted by sammorris:

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I'm not saying the Saturn was a bad console, far from it, but Sega messed up the launch badly, and the support for it dried up very quickly.

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This was largely due to two reasons:

1. Sega was already on its last legs financially and struggled to challenge the nes and snes in America.

2. Nintendo force/persuaded lots of games creators to only code for Nintendo systems and shut down the titles that would be available on other consoles.

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Sega was struggling to compete with the others thus the short sighted Saturn was born,the trouble is between codeing(2 CPU+ 6 extras possessors) and lack of dev support from lack of sega support to devs it was just a nightmare,add wanning sales they had to do something and sadly the DC was it.

I think Sony is doing a better job with support but now adays pubs want quick cash from devs so coding on a hard system might be foolish.

Altho I think codeing is better now adays it still might be enough to slow pubs/devs warmign up to them.

Comment by: plazma247 (Jul 01, 2007 19:52)

I Agree but i think some people (devs) still sell out to one said system, i remember watching the E3 expo when the ps3 and 360 both appeared before launch and there was companines signing up exclusivly, cant remember who but i think most have realised that as long as they can create a good title it makes more sense to write it across all platforms.

What would be nice is for a bold software house to write a cross platform multiplayer where ps3 users could match up against 360 users. Forgive me if this has already been done, but i thought that things like xbox live prevented this for happening.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 01, 2007 20:02)

Originally posted by plazma247:

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I Agree but i think some people (devs) still sell out to one said system, i remember watching the E3 expo when the ps3 and 360 both appeared before launch and there was companines signing up exclusivly, cant remember who but i think most have realised that as long as they can create a good title it makes more sense to write it across all platforms.

What would be nice is for a bold software house to write a cross platform multiplayer where ps3 users could match up against 360 users. Forgive me if this has already been done, but i thought that things like xbox live prevented this for happening.

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then yes,now adays not so much,the large dev houses that make software on all systems can press out ports with more ease because they are already making stuff for them thus can spam out ports and make more profit,the only time a game dose not go multi is because its either to hard to port or they have deals with one system.

Comment by: SamNz (Jul 02, 2007 03:27)

interesting that everybody slams ps3 for overheating yet maybe there components can withstand a lil heat 30% is very high esp after having 2 years to fix it hmmmmm very interesting

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 02, 2007 10:33)

Originally posted by SamNz:

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interesting that everybody slams ps3 for overheating yet maybe there components can withstand a lil heat 30% is very high esp after having 2 years to fix it hmmmmm very interesting

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360 actually,the PS3 only has had part shortages and console gluts in retail.

I believe most of the 360 issues come from bad manufacturing job,say your first million or 2 units come from a bad factory,now have those units patched and not fully repaired in order to use them for RMA replacements, the presived fail(5-10%) rate could well triple, but I don't believe this line of thought has the numbers to back it up either way MS screwed up and is "blaming" the consumer.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 02, 2007 11:04)

sammorris
don't forget the PS3 uses 6 or 7V lines at a certain amprage,its nto like a normal PC fan (god aint I late on this?)
LOL

BTW did you PM me abotu me air flow question?
if you didnt pm me pm me already :P

Comment by: sammorris (Jul 02, 2007 12:34)

Been a busy few days for me, what was I supposed to PM you about?
The PS3, expensive though it is, does seem to perform relatively well reliability-wise and I don't hear any moans about the noise level either. The extra time and extra money seemed to fund a better designed cooling system.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 02, 2007 12:55)

Originally posted by sammorris:

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Been a busy few days for me, what was I supposed to PM you about?
The PS3, expensive though it is, does seem to perform relatively well reliability-wise and I don't hear any moans about the noise level either. The extra time and extra money seemed to fund a better designed cooling system.

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sammorris
PC tower fan placement the fan under the PSU should it be putting air in or out of the PC?

My stupi mind says putting air in is better since theres lil fresh air coming in.

Comment by: sammorris (Jul 02, 2007 12:57)

PC tower fan replacement? Sorry I'm not grasping what it is you're trying to do...

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 02, 2007 13:12)

Originally posted by sammorris:

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PC tower fan replacement? Sorry I'm not grasping what it is you're trying to do...

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thats ok,no one understands me :P

ok whats best having the fan under the PSU in a tower unit put cool air into the PC or exhaust from the PC?

Comment by: sammorris (Jul 02, 2007 14:52)

The PSU fan should always exhaust from the case, because that way all the hot air the Power supply produces is shoved straight outside, and not dumped into an already warm PC case.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 02, 2007 14:58)

Originally posted by sammorris:

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The PSU fan should always exhaust from the case, because that way all the hot air the Power supply produces is shoved straight outside, and not dumped into an already warm PC case.

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=================================================
...the fan UNDER the PSU .....correction the CASE FAN under the PSU LOL
you know most tower cases have a 60-120MM mount and grill for a fan to go on its generally under the PSU.

Comment by: plazma247 (Jul 02, 2007 14:59)

zippy if you go to buy any modern replacement psu most are going to have a 12cm draw fan over the cpu instead of just using an 8cm rear exhaust fan.

Its a 12cm to draw over the largest surface with minimum air flow to prevent back flow/pressure against the cpu fan.

This change to modern powersupplies was done largely because many earlier p4 and AMD system suffered from heat welling on the power supplies bottom plate.

Similar to the thing as in the xboxs, where surroundings to the cpu heatsink is getting to the point that it can no longer be cooled effeciently and the the heat getting reflected back and forth from surrounding then becomes to much.

Hence the name "thermal runaway".

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 02, 2007 15:07)

Originally posted by plazma247:

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zippy if you go to buy any modern replacement psu most are going to have a 12cm draw fan over the cpu instead of just using an 8cm rear exhaust fan.

Its a 12cm to draw over the largest surface with minimum air flow to prevent back flow/pressure against the cpu fan.

This change to modern powersupplies was done largely because many earlier p4 and AMD system suffered from heat welling.

Similar to the thing as in the xboxs, where surroundings to the cpu heatsink is getting to the point that it can no longer be cooled effeciently and the the heat getting reflected back and forth from surrounding then becomes to much.

Hence the name "thermal runaway".

In the ATX power supply case this was the bottom plate over the cpu heat sink.

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I meant the case fan under the PSU,my PSU is a Ultra X2 550-Watt,the 120 fan pumps air out but its placed over the intake grill of the PSU and not in the back of the PSU,this worries me some,but my main question is which should the case fan under the PSU be a intake or exhaust fan, my brain says intake, so fresh cool air can come in flow by the CPU and be exhausted by the PSU.

Comment by: plazma247 (Jul 02, 2007 15:15)

Ah ok, rule of thumb with PC's is draw from front and exhaust at rear, this avoids rebreath effects where exahusted hot air gets recirculated.

When you install the fan place the label on the fan facing away from you towards the back of the case, this will be the exahust the same as the powersupply.

If your fitting a 8cm fan in a hold for a 12cm fan use duck tape or something suitable to covert the surrounding holes the fan doesnt cover, it will ensure you get no re-breath at the back of the case.

Look at the front of the case, does it have space for draw fans at the front?

If so fit as requried, if you have space for two and are fitting one, again cover the un-used hot as the will prevent the fan from just re-breathing hot air, but if you have space for two and your fitting a rear draw fan fit two at the front.

Finially the single 12cm over the cpu with no rear fan is normal nowadays for an atx psu and nothing to worry about, earlier models had an 8cm at the back there but the 12cm forcing against a lower rpm 8cm caused the 8cm bearings to die more quickly, well it did in everyone i saw. So most you see now adays dont have them, instead all the back is drilled/vented to allow the heat to get out.

Beacause of the pressure from the 12cm it will move the heat but it just dont feelt the same, its just over a larger area, this doesnt feel as stong as it would have with older psu's.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 02, 2007 15:35)

I have card board splitting the air flow to ensure the hot air that raises up anyway will not contaminant the intake.

This case (http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/minotaur/) wish I got the red but got the green instead *L*

it has no front fan intakes and only some ventilation holes.

Comment by: plazma247 (Jul 02, 2007 15:42)

Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:

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I have card board splitting the air flow to ensure the hot air that raises up anyway will not contaminant the intake.

This case (http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/minotaur/) wish I got the red but got the green instead *L*

it has no front fan intakes and only some ventilation holes.

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If you look at this picture chap:

http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/minotaur/img/025.jpg

Looks like you can fit either a 12cm or 8cm at the front there, fit a 12 and then plumb the rest of the holes, also make sure you have the feet on your case and theres at least 1cm below the case for it to breath.

If you feel right at the bottom of the front facia you should feel the front breather slot ;-)

Oh and when you fit the 12cm front fan put the sticker towards the back so its sucking in and not exhausting.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 02, 2007 16:30)

Quote:

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Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:

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I have card board splitting the air flow to ensure the hot air that raises up anyway will not contaminant the intake.

This case (http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/minotaur/) wish I got the red but got the green instead *L*

it has no front fan intakes and only some ventilation holes.

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If you look at this picture chap:

http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/minotaur/img/025.jpg

Looks like you can fit either a 12cm or 8cm at the front there, fit a 12 and then plumb the rest of the holes, also make sure you have the feet on your case and theres at least 1cm below the case for it to breath.

If you feel right at the bottom of the front facia you should feel the front breather slot ;-)

Oh and when you fit the 12cm front fan put the sticker towards the back so its sucking in and not exhausting.

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================================================
maybe is the fan was 2MM thick,the HDD mount cage blocks that area well.

FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.

Comment by: plazma247 (Jul 02, 2007 16:32)

Doh, umm what about the other side of the plate any room there or does the usb stick back to much off the facia ?

Are you sure normally u can fit a fan there to blow over the hard disk stack.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 02, 2007 16:43)

Originally posted by plazma247:

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Doh, umm what about the other side of the plate any room there or does the usb stick back to much off the facia ?

Are you sure normally u can fit a fan there to blow over the hard disk stack.

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with the large mounting in front for the LED and USB/sound stuff,theres jsut no room for it.

right now I am runnign this beast covers off,but I want to put them back on when I get the HDD fans upgraded to
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811999152

I need 2 more and 1 rma'd (had it for a year)

have 4 HDDs 1 40GB ide for XP,1 120GB ide,1 214gb sata and 1 320gb sata,stupid 5inch drive bays are not that great for HDDs a bit uneven with most kits.
speaking of which I got one of these
http://www.directron.com/scyhds2.html
lovely mount kit,I so wish I could find this fan in a HD fan kit
http://www.directron.com/uc8eb.html
no bearings no burn outs >>

FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.

Comment by: plazma247 (Jul 02, 2007 16:49)

hehe yeah i know what its like ive got 4 stuffed into mine, two running a 320 gig strip and then a 250 and 120 for storage.

im running in a lian li:

http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_1027.html

Mines an earlier version of this less the side draw fan.

I would fit the fan coolers but i would get some software to check the temps on disk using smart before and afterwards as sometimes if your not drawing enough cold at the front you may find they dont actually get much cooler.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 02, 2007 16:59)

Originally posted by plazma247:

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hehe yeah i know what its like ive got 4 stuffed into mine, two running a 320 gig strip and then a 250 and 120 for storage.

im running in a lian li:

http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_1027.html

Mines an earlier version of this less the side draw fan.

I would fit the fan coolers but i would get some software to check the temps on disk using smart before and afterwards as sometimes if your not drawing enough cold at the front you may find they dont actually get much cooler.

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with fans I run 10-15 below the 40-48C they like at normally run at,if you have a good case you might can skip it,but with high speeds and high temps I don't trust not running a HD without fans,so I have 2 in the HDD cage thats made for 4 fanless HDDs and 2 in the 5inch bays, I need to put my new mobo in(939 3700+ on a asrock Dual SATA a friend gave me) but I been lazy plus my HDs ar filled my Liteon SWH160-P6S gave out (reads and makes coasters fine),I am borrowing a sony dur-820a just reisntalled XP so I dont have Nero back up and running yet blah so much to do so much crap to get and little moeny and energy to do it all with LOL

FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.