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Comment by: eandtc (Jun 06, 2007 04:40)

Quote:

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LOL, too much, looks like someone missed the topic, and the humor.

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I'm guessing you are referring to dpp, since it was a mod who banned him, not I.

Fact is, samuels was getting so touchy as to be jumping at shadows. ZIppyDSM asked him a legitimate question, and samuels overreacted. If there was any humor in that exchange, it was unintentional.

Comment by: surtees (Jun 06, 2007 04:56)

Originally posted by svtstang:

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LOL I soooooo agree with Zippy! We have not seen eye to eye at times (aka the Final Fantasy thread), but I still respect his opinions. The problem here is that some arse holes dont realize we are debating over something as lame as consoles, and get too caught up being right. IMO samuels should be gone, he went a few steps over the line and personally attacked people for opinions on a console which differed from his own. Lame.

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i have read all these pages.*phew*some make some valid points,but i couldn't help notice the slack comments thrown at samuels,IMO he made some very valid points,if you take the time to think,instead of racing for the keyboard just to shoot someone down,you speak of arse holes on here,well i can name a few straight up,and you are one of them for making such flaming remarks,i dont think he went over the line,i say eandtc,david rose,ZippyDSM and yourself did,you slagged off/flamed more than what samuels did,unless i missed something whilst reading this forum,i did not see any statement,that his console was different from anyone elses,and as for the mod, DDP ,bloke i really think you need to get a life,i think the mod "status" has gone to your brain.

Comment by: surtees (Jun 06, 2007 05:13)

you all asked samuels to back up his claims that unmodded xbox 360 consoles were being banned on live as well.
Why don't you all go back to page one and read what someone else claimed,they claimed the same as samuels,but not one person demanded "proof" .
heres some information for you,i have had an xbox 360 go bung on me,it was sent back to microsoft,it was returned,and some 2-3 weeks later i started to get the red rings of death,i phoned microsoft support,they asked me for the serial number,the customer support rep had said to me,thats the third time that machines been in,for the exact same problem,my reply was-you are joking aren't you.Question-how could it of been in three times?when i haven't had any problems up until the first and only time for me.
Answer-I got back a refurbished xbox 360

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jun 06, 2007 09:52)

Originally posted by surtees:

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you all asked samuels to back up his claims that unmodded xbox 360 consoles were being banned on live as well.
Why don't you all go back to page one and read what someone else claimed,they claimed the same as samuels,but not one person demanded "proof" .
heres some information for you,i have had an xbox 360 go bung on me,it was sent back to microsoft,it was returned,and some 2-3 weeks later i started to get the red rings of death,i phoned microsoft support,they asked me for the serial number,the customer support rep had said to me,thats the third time that machines been in,for the exact same problem,my reply was-you are joking aren't you.Question-how could it of been in three times?when i haven't had any problems up until the first and only time for me.
Answer-I got back a refurbished xbox 360

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=================================================
some of what he said was truthful but but the convo degenerated some and the name calling did not help.

FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jun 06, 2007 10:07)

Originally posted by svtstang:

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LOL I soooooo agree with Zippy! We have not seen eye to eye at times (aka the Final Fantasy thread), but I still respect his opinions. The problem here is that some arse holes dont realize we are debating over something as lame as consoles, and get too caught up being right. IMO samuels should be gone, he went a few steps over the line and personally attacked people for opinions on a console which differed from his own. Lame.

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might want to check it again I posted about FF12 since I got a hold of it,same BS from the last few games the equipment and skill system are crippled and and drowned (had a dream abotu it Balthiar having Edgar's skills form FF6) the world/level design is solid enough and the VAing/dialog is one of the best in game dubing but the game play itself is lacking and the live action battles only make them faster not better... all in all better than 8 and X but not better than the the classic FF style(4,6,9),7 was the only solid "new type" FF I could like the rest seem hobbled togather.
(ack I hit preview and not post last night)
edit
a link to the FF thread
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/23/198402#3132833

FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.

Comment by: eandtc (Jun 06, 2007 11:25)

Quote:

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Why don't you all go back to page one and read what someone else claimed,they claimed the same as samuels,but not one person demanded "proof" .

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If you would be so kind as to go back and read my posts, you would see I was asking for proof about the so-called laws he was claiming existed. He named one, but refused to go into specifics. Go figure.

As to refurbished 360's, I have no doubt this can happen, as well as un-modded Xboxes getting banned as well, but these are certainly the exception, not the rule, and automatically screaming "lawsuit" is a touch much. It just got to the point where samuels was just pulling stuff out of his butt and presenting it as fact, and that gets tiresome. YMMV.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jun 06, 2007 11:42)

Quote:

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[quote]Why don't you all go back to page one and read what someone else claimed,they claimed the same as samuels,but not one person demanded "proof" .

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If you would be so kind as to go back and read my posts, you would see I was asking for proof about the so-called laws he was claiming existed. He named one, but refused to go into specifics. Go figure.

As to refurbished 360's, I have no doubt this can happen, as well as un-modded Xboxes getting banned as well, but these are certainly the exception, not the rule, and automatically screaming "lawsuit" is a touch much. It just got to the point where samuels was just pulling stuff out of his butt and presenting it as fact, and that gets tiresome. YMMV.[/quote]
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Not to mention empty boxs for returned to suer RMAs MS is so large it can happen,the 360 is still a bit wonky hardware wise for my tastes but its solid enough.

Comment by: surtees (Jun 06, 2007 20:04)

some of what he said was truthful but but the convo degenerated some and the name calling did not help.[/quote]All i can see,what samuels said was,that some people weren't comprehending the points that were being made.
I didn't see samuels call you or anyone else an "arse hole"
If you didn't like what samuels was saying why didn't you ask him to refrain from saying that you and others couldn't "comprehend"
I see some posts edited,but they way they were edited,did not support your claims of name calling,IMO

Comment by: surtees (Jun 06, 2007 20:15)

If you would be so kind as to go back and read my posts, you would see I was asking for proof about the so-called laws he was claiming existed. He named one, but refused to go into specifics. Go figure.

As to refurbished 360's, I have no doubt this can happen, as well as un-modded Xboxes getting banned as well, but these are certainly the exception, not the rule, and automatically screaming "lawsuit" is a touch much. It just got to the point where samuels was just pulling stuff out of his butt and presenting it as fact, and that gets tiresome. YMMV.[/quote]
============================================================
Not to mention empty boxs for returned to suer RMAs MS is so large it can happen,the 360 is still a bit wonky hardware wise for my tastes but its solid enough.[/quote]

Well he did supply you with a link,i read it, and fully understood it,is that not proof enough for you,that is if you are referring to the Australian laws on modchipping on consoles?
I agree with everyone else about the EULA issue,but samuels did swing your way,eventually,didn't he?in theory, this issue could be contested in court,i won't elaborate,as i don't want to start,what samuels has already strated.
As for him talking about "lawsuits" also theororetically, samuels is correct,we just have to wait and see,we might all get a surprise.

Comment by: eandtc (Jun 06, 2007 22:05)

"I see some posts edited,but they way they were edited,did not support your claims of name calling,IMO"

The only parts edited are those with his comments. You know, the name-calling.

"is that not proof enough for you,that is if you are referring to the Australian laws on modchipping on consoles?"

Nope. Again, if you are really reading the posts, I clearly stated over and over and over again that modding consoles wasn't the issue. Accessing the network was the issue.

Anyways, your concern for him exceeds mine, so I'll leave you to talk about him.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jun 06, 2007 22:10)

Originally posted by eandtc:

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"I see some posts edited,but they way they were edited,did not support your claims of name calling,IMO"

The only parts edited are those with his comments. You know, the name-calling.

"is that not proof enough for you,that is if you are referring to the Australian laws on modchipping on consoles?"

Nope. Again, if you are really reading the posts, I clearly stated over and over and over again that modding consoles wasn't the issue. Accessing the network was the issue.

Anyways, your concern for him exceeds mine, so I'll leave you to talk about him.

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If you want to get back to "law" chat,laws are made to protect the rich and the peace of common folk,modchips fall under protecting the rich thus I ignore them,as for the EULA MS is well with its rights to ban a consumer and his unit for any reason they feel, and that suer could take them to court but witch court would it be small claims?

FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.

Comment by: eandtc (Jun 07, 2007 00:00)

You got me. I would presume one would have to bring it to a US court at the very least, but I can't see anything smaller than a class action lawsuit coming close to changing this. As I said before, there are many companies that limit access to services using specific - and unmodified - hardware. Just because one pays a subscription doesn't mean that the subscriber can set the terms. It would be like someone demanding access to their DirectTV account with a black market ID card.

So many folks keep acting like it's a violation of some inalienable right to access these networks in a manner that the network owners don't allow - especially after signing an agreement specifically stating that they won't. If you don't abide by the rules of service, then your payment amounts to nothing. This is the case in quite a few scenarios that I can think of (box seats for sports events, rental of a car or time share, etc.)

Simply saying that it isn't right for someone to refuse service when you don't meet the agreement doesn't mean it's illegal. So many folks here seem so used to getting what they want despite the laws (by hacking, copying, etc.) that they don't even know how to react when they are actually beholden to said laws. I can't help but chuckle at some folks who admit to breaking the law in their favor, but can't stand the law being upheld against them. The laws don't apply to them, but should apply to everyone else? This mindset just boggles the mind.

And just for the record, I'm guilty of some less-than-legal actions myself, but I'm not fooling myself into thinking this is the way things should be done, either.

[EDIT] spelling :P

Comment by: svtstang (Jun 07, 2007 00:16)

^^^^^^

good post!

It is within the forum rules ddp, i swear!! :P

Comment by: eandtc (Jun 07, 2007 02:10)

Thanks. Sorry for the rant. :)

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jun 07, 2007 09:46)

Originally posted by surtees:

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If you would be so kind as to go back and read my posts, you would see I was asking for proof about the so-called laws he was claiming existed. He named one, but refused to go into specifics. Go figure.

As to refurbished 360's, I have no doubt this can happen, as well as un-modded Xboxes getting banned as well, but these are certainly the exception, not the rule, and automatically screaming "lawsuit" is a touch much. It just got to the point where samuels was just pulling stuff out of his butt and presenting it as fact, and that gets tiresome. YMMV.

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============================================================
Not to mention empty boxs for returned to suer RMAs MS is so large it can happen,the 360 is still a bit wonky hardware wise for my tastes but its solid enough.[/quote]

Well he did supply you with a link,i read it, and fully understood it,is that not proof enough for you,that is if you are referring to the Australian laws on modchipping on consoles?
I agree with everyone else about the EULA issue,but samuels did swing your way,eventually,didn't he?in theory, this issue could be contested in court,i won't elaborate,as i don't want to start,what samuels has already strated.
As for him talking about "lawsuits" also theororetically, samuels is correct,we just have to wait and see,we might all get a surprise.[/quote]----------------------------------------------------------
he also degenerated in flaming and name calling push too many wrong buttons anywhere and you will be buzzed it happens.
a month ban would have been better since he survived being a noob but meh I am not mod martial ..way to bi polar :P

damnit did it again....this should have posted last night >>

FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.

Comment by: OMEGASA (Jun 14, 2007 21:51)

does anyone have an actual site where i can read what microsoft said, all i can find are rehashed versions of it.

Comment by: spikey07 (Nov 24, 2007 16:05)

read the code of conduct n it says bout moddin ur xbox will get u banned so stop whinging bout gettin banned and yes i ave been banned frm live !!!!!!

Comment by: robtwilk (Jan 09, 2008 00:08)

I don't know much about being "banned" from a forum, so my statement may be ridiculous: surtees appears to be a reincarnation of samuels. The typing style is very similar (using lots of commas and no spaces) and the distinct tone of the message is all too familiar. The reverence to every word spoken by samuels is spooky. The newbie status doesn't help either. If not a reincarnation, than possibly a minion??

I love free speech as much as the next person, but flaming arguments about game consoles is a little over the top (we are not discussing abortion or human rights violations). These appear to be angry people using a forum as a method to relieve their anger. I love a good debate, but we need to keep it civilized. The truth is no side is right or wrong, there are only opinions and speculation.

When I see a sticker on something that says "if this seal is broken the warranty is voided", I leave the sticker alone and keep my warranty, or I break the sticker and pray I never need the warranty. But I knowingly took that risk. I think the modders were shocked when they were banned, but knew the risk when they modded their box.

It is crazy to think service providers can't have enforceable rules for their service.

Comment by: FutureCP3 (Apr 25, 2008 22:46)

Ok i got a question--if i have a modded xbox 360, but i have original games, like halo 3, can i stll play that online. cause i know that you cant play burned games...

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Apr 26, 2008 01:02)

Originally posted by FutureCP3:

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Ok i got a question--if i have a modded xbox 360, but i have original games, like halo 3, can i stll play that online. cause i know that you cant play burned games...

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thats why you buy 2 360s.

Comment by: heraldsun (Apr 27, 2008 06:55)

Originally posted by robtwilk:

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I don't know much about being "banned" from a forum, so my statement may be ridiculous: surtees appears to be a reincarnation of samuels. The typing style is very similar (using lots of commas and no spaces) and the distinct tone of the message is all too familiar. The reverence to every word spoken by samuels is spooky. The newbie status doesn't help either. If not a reincarnation, than possibly a minion??

I love free speech as much as the next person, but flaming arguments about game consoles is a little over the top (we are not discussing abortion or human rights violations). These appear to be angry people using a forum as a method to relieve their anger. I love a good debate, but we need to keep it civilized. The truth is no side is right or wrong, there are only opinions and speculation.

When I see a sticker on something that says "if this seal is broken the warranty is voided", I leave the sticker alone and keep my warranty, or I break the sticker and pray I never need the warranty. But I knowingly took that risk. I think the modders were shocked when they were banned, but knew the risk when they modded their box.

It is crazy to think service providers can't have enforceable rules for their service.

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so spooky you think,well surtees isn't samuels I can Guarantee you that.you speak with a wise tongue,unfortunately not everyone is as wise.I to like a good,sensible debate.

Comment by: heraldsun (Apr 27, 2008 07:01)

Quote:

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Originally posted by FutureCP3:

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Ok i got a question--if i have a modded xbox 360, but i have original games, like halo 3, can i stll play that online. cause i know that you cant play burned games...

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thats why you buy 2 360s.

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That depends on what firmware you have...
Playing with an orignal game of Halo,even a backed up copy on a modded console will not get you banned from XBL,However, you, as every one has stated(well nearly everyone)is in disregard of XBL terms and conditions which constitute a breach of contract with Microsoft

Comment by: FutureCP3 (Apr 28, 2008 00:42)

i understand that (sort of), my only concern is if i play an original game on a chipped, modded, whatever term you like to use, is there still any probability that Microsoft can ban me from Live?

Comment by: heraldsun (Apr 28, 2008 06:30)

Originally posted by FutureCP3:

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i understand that (sort of), my only concern is if i play an original game on a chipped, modded, whatever term you like to use, is there still any probability that Microsoft can ban me from Live?

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To be honest,I am one that doesn't play online,but plenty of my friends do,I am only going on what they say,Like I said it depends on what firmware your drive has,that apparently can be the killer,I am lead to believe I-xtreme is the best for XBL for original and backed up games,as long as you don't play a game online that hasn't been released yet, this is an example only :)
Also anything is possible,Microsoft may or may not catch up with you on XBL,it's like life,full of challenges and chances,but in saying that,I haven't heard of anyone getting banned with the latest firmware out,but I could be wrong. hope this clarifies some of your concerns.

Comment by: gehx (Apr 28, 2008 06:34)

Originally posted by FutureCP3:

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i understand that (sort of), my only concern is if i play an original game on a chipped, modded, whatever term you like to use, is there still any probability that Microsoft can ban me from Live?

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yes, it's a risk you take...

"if you can't do the time, don't do the crime"