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Comment by: voyager (Mar 31, 2007 07:23)

I agree with you.BR-disc game will be xpensive too and not everybody is going to pay for a game until they heard or read the reviews.probably they will rent first.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Mar 31, 2007 07:28)

Originally posted by voyager:

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I agree with you.BR-disc game will be xpensive too and not everybody is going to pay for a game until they heard or read the reviews.probably they will rent first.

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its on the devs to get BR games going,Pubs will balance the cost makeign all new games 50-70$ in order to keep BR titles from being 70-90$.

BR has potential but so far its not worth the price,unless you have money to burn.

Comment by: djeazyg (Mar 31, 2007 14:09)

Originally posted by voyager:

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I agree with you.BR-disc game will be xpensive too and not everybody is going to pay for a game until they heard or read the reviews.probably they will rent first.

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Not to mention that Sony has failed at almost every attempt (if not all attempts) at creating a new format for anything. IE: Mini disk, beta, and I don't remember them all.
What we need is that new German DVD format that is playable in both Blue-Ray and HD-DVD players to grab hold and sail. I don't know if it has a name yet but it is out there.
I'm all for Sony but their track record for new formats is not good at all.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Mar 31, 2007 14:37)

djeazyg
the main reason UDM fails was because of price,if sony really wanted it to be a true format they would have made 80$ 4inch or so LCD players and sold the UDM movies FREE with new DVD movies as well as UDM stand alone at a reasonable price 10-15$.
Sony can not reinvent all they can do is make something and hope people will eat it up.

BR has more backing from the indutry than anything sony has ever been a part of,also Mini disk is heavily used my DJs and other profisnail types,BR dose have more potential than HDVD,all in all tis not bad but its going to still be a few years before a new format is decided on it would be funny if people stick with DVD that would show the evil corporations :P

Comment by: kuhne (Apr 04, 2007 12:08)

I will try to be as unbiased as possible, most of you here seem to be leaning toward saying bad things about the PS3 more than anything else, I will try to be unbiased towards both systems.

First of all, I was annoyed as well when my PS3 didn't come with an HDMI cable but you guys are making way too much out of it. Sure the xbox included the component cables but they didn't include an HDMI option at all and also, if you want WIFI you need to purchase the most expensive WIFI adaptor ever made in the history of mankind when the PS3 already has wifi included. So I will take that against having an HDMI cable included any day.

Sure, the ps3 doesn't give the user a lot of options when buying but believe me, this is the way consoles were meant to be, we are not supposed to have any options, this isn't the PC market, core versions, eleet versions, whatever.. this is stupid, it only makes someone say "oh god I might need that hard drive after all" after a few years. with all the included hardware the ps3 has you know for a fact that machine will stay like that without any change for at least 5 to 7 years.

With the xbox, 2 years have passed and we already have an "eleet" version which has HDMI and a bigger hard drive... woa.. we didnt see that coming did we?

Let me guess, in 2 more years they will release one with HD-DVD included? and the ps3 will be just the way it was when it came out.

So all this "Microsoft gives us options" speech is crap, it's way better to spend 600 up front.

In my case, my 360 was actualy more expensive than my Ps3.

When I got my ps3 I got the console, extra controlers and a dvd remote. thats it.

with my xbox, I boughgt the console, which lets say was a little under 400 bucks but I also got the HD-DVD adaptor, which is 200 bucks more. not just that but I got extra controlers, for which I had to buy rechargable bateries (the ps3 has those included) and to top all that off, I needed it to conect to my WIFI so I had to buy the wifi adapter which is not cheap at all. I ended spending much more on my xbox 360 than I spent on my ps3 simplmy because microsoft couldn't release all their hardware on a nicely wraped up package.

Now If the experience was at least better than the PS3 I wouldnt complain so much but in reality, I spent more and in the end of the day I still have a console with no HDMI and with less than 10gb of hard drive. and just the added "fun fact" that it wont play HD-DVD games, just movies, unlike blu ray which will play games on 50gb discs.

... I know I said I was gona be unbiased right? well I am unbiased because after all the ps3 is a gaming console before anything and ...... THE GAMES SUCK!!! seriously wtf? the ps3's biggest selling game is a god damned shooter.... not just that but their online gaming network sucks. their download games section sucks and it just seems like they forgot to do all that and implemented it 1 week before release. it's just choppy as hell.

Xbox doesnt stay that far back tho. since launch they have released only a handfull of really good games.

This is how the ps2 OWNED the first xbox... it was launched one year before the xbox and for that same reason it released tons of games. by the time the xbox was out consumers had 2 options. a new big ugly black box with 5 games or sony's already huge gaming library.

I think the only console that actualy knew what it was doing was the wii and i think thats why it is the best right now

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Apr 04, 2007 12:42)

kuhne
just so ya know "industry standard" is not going to make allot of "50GB" games,and even then thos exclusive titles can be broken up with no loss onto 5 DVD9s,the reason I claim "industry standard" is because almost everyone is making stuff for everything one else be it any console or PC so they are not going to go out of their way to fully utilize the 50 GB more like they will merely dump data onto the disc and hope they can use tricks to help load times,I hope Sony and Bethsada are working together to get oblivion working fully on the PS3 thats going to be its first real "load test".

I am more interested in the nuances and the games when you get down to it theres little diffrance in the 360 and PS3 and when you find the diffrances its mostly the PS3 having more coherent Hdef abilities.

I would like to see sony focus more on BWC for now screw the price they have allot of little things that need to be done and price aint it.

I would like to see MS apologize for its hardware nightmare and and do some recalls so that by summer of next year all the new hardware is new and 50% of the old is new as well.

Comment by: kuhne (Apr 04, 2007 14:22)

I know most people developers dont event want to think about making games that big at the moment but a lot of the space in games now a days isnt content but actualy high def content. in other words, the bigger the storage device the more detailed graphics you can achieve. obviously right now and in a few years this doesnt matter but in a few years bigger discs will be needed, either that or make use of the consoles hard drive which in my point of view would be troublesome, too much like PC gaming at that point. consoles are meant to be strictly 100% software based, thats why its the easiest hassle free way to play games. Of course I love the idea of having a HD in my console, for updates and new maps and things like that but I want all of my game or as much as possible to be in one disc, hassle free and it seems like sony as allways is thinking ahead.. it doesnt allways pan out the way they think but they usualy have the superior hardware even if in the end it doesnt become the industry standard.

as for the xbox hardware issue, I agree with you, MS needs to do a lot about their hardware and this new xbox coming out is an insult to all those people who bought the original xbox who could have goten HDMI at that point, I rememember an interview with some big shot microsoft guy in the xbox team who flat out said, theres no HDMI in the xbox because we feel theres no need for HDMI in games right now.

I doubt his opinion changed in less than a year... Microsoft just realised that having the ps3 with HDMI and the xbox without it kinda sucked for them so they add HDMI and they add a bigger hard drive which is atractive but really useless as I just dont use the harddrive in my xbox at all.. to listen to music I either stream it from my PC or conect my ipod to the usb port in the xbox and the xbox cannot store video unless its downloaded from the xbox marketplace so all video I watch on my xbox is streamed from my pc as a media center extender.... in other words, a bigger drive in the xbox is cool but kinda useless. unless you are a hardcore xboxlivve marketplace downloaded (videos, demos, movies etc..) and dont delete anything.
Movies would take more space than anything but they are rentals so they have to be downloaded.

The only good thing I would see about a new xbox is if they added HD DVD to it directly but if they did that the price would skyrocket well over the price of the playstation 3 (which is very cheap for what it actualy is) and people would be confused as a big selling point of the xbox is the fact that it is cheaper than the ps3.

What you get with the xbox is actualy a cheaper product than with the ps3, like buying a cheaper pc.

Where microsoft has to get their crap together is with the games because sony doesnt have to worry about that, sony will eventualy drop tons and tons of games, its what they do, doesnt matter if the games suck, doesnt matter if its a spice girls game, as long as there are games. Quantity over quality is what made the ps1 one if not the best console ever made. (they had quality too of course but they basicaly had every game out there)

Microsoft seems to be very concerned to make people believe that the xbox is a superior device than the ps3 in every aspect.

Whatever the ps3 has that the xbox 360 doesnt, microsoft says is useless.. like HDMI... then before you know it microsoft sneaks in a xbox with HDMI... whats next, an xbox with integrated wifi? then in a few years an xbox with a better processor and then better ram and then HD-DVD and ... why not just change the name to ps3..

Microsoft is not used to be the underdog when it comes to things they can do with money. for example, they may be losing to google as far as a websearch engine goes but its not becuase they arent spending enough money on it, MSN live has as much features as google does maybe even more, its just people like google more.

with the console situation they are actualy for the first time the underdogs in every aspect of the fight, their hardware is even inferior to sony's and they cant deal with that it seems. instead of doing what sony has allways done in the console market. beat the competition with inferior hardware. Just like the ps1 owned the saturn and the N64 and just like the ps2 owned the xbox 360.

You didnt see Sony try to release new versions of their PS2 to make it look as powerfull as the xbox.. they never claimed it was as powerfull as the xbox. in fact, the ps2 graphics kinda sucked, yet it owned the xbox completly simply because of the games.

I dont know why microsoft doesnt learn from this and just starts mass releasing games. even if they are bad, it doesnt matter. they sell.

Just like the ps3 released a gundam game when it came out, its a horrible game yet it was one of the best sellers. it seems microsoft got famehappy with Halo and now only wants to release games that make people go insane, kind of like blizzard.

Which is why I predict sony will take over again, by massproducing all sorts of crap

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Apr 04, 2007 15:22)

kuhne
even in 5 years games will be on DVD9 because the other formats are not industry or consumer standards because of that theres not going to be allot of 50GB games.

AS I said before space will always be looked at in 8GB sections at least in the next 3-6 years the next gen discs are a niche they can do nice things with it but it wont be greater than what others can do on 3 or 6 discs ,plus sony wants to release a new system in 4-6 years so past 5 years I cant see to clearly.
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Insult? I dunno only if it dose not ahve the 65NM CPU witch guaranties effective cooling and a stable system,if it lacks it and they glaze it over with a fan...meh ya thats a insult.

HDMI is a iffy spec anyway its already gettign to 1.3 the Xbox might have 1.2 but the aduio is crippled its the way they did it odd
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Relook at the history of the PS2 it was much more than being first,it was the only viable option for devs the DC was ding the N64 was handicapped the PSX brand was solid it was really the only choice.
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The main reason the Xbox "failed" was because it could not get devs,the 360 has managed to gain devs enough to fight the PS3 as a equal no matter what its issues are
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For the next 3 years I have a good idea what will happen

1.in the next 2 years MS will put Hdvd in the 360,
2.the HDVD/BR war will still be going strong
3.in 2 years the PS3 will finally stop limping on the road to recovery
4.in 2 years the WII will be everywhere X2

wild guessing
5.in 3-5 years the Xbox 2 is released
6.5-6 nin releases a new system
7.in 5-6 years HDvd/BR war over ? wins
8.in 4-6 someone makes a Hdvd add on for under 100(be it retail or a china kit)

9. in 4-6 years sony might update the PS3 lens to BR/hdvd and claim a PR win and frankly they would win if they had the balls to do it(in 4 years a dual drive would under 150 so the cost is nigligable)

10.I can see Sony putting off a new system for up to 7 years,and unlike the 360 its nearly perfect as far as power/hardware/stability goes even a Xbox 2 with full real Hdef support and a Hdvd drive with changeable HD a 4 core CPU double ramm(mem/video) and a 50% boost to speed (GPU/FBS/CPU) would not be much higher than the PS3.

So sony can take some time see what the others do and improve on it.

All sony needs to do with the Ps3 is improve BWC and put a dual Hdvd/Br drive in it,they would make it worth havign for everyone and ensure its longevity.

Comment by: kuhne (Apr 04, 2007 16:57)

its good to allways have the option open tho. a massive multiplayer game that may require chunks of the xbox360' harddrive (because it couldnt be done with multiple discs, too much of a hassle) may run natively from the disc on the ps3.

im not saying that sony will only be able to do things that no one else will, of course they will be able to, many discs is allways an option however it has allways been a nasty option for a console. nobody likes switching discs. the last console game i remember in which I had to change discs was wing comander... and i hated that. way too many problems

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Apr 04, 2007 17:10)

Originally posted by kuhne:

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its good to allways have the option open tho. a massive multiplayer game that may require chunks of the xbox360' harddrive (because it couldnt be done with multiple discs, too much of a hassle) may run natively from the disc on the ps3.

im not saying that sony will only be able to do things that no one else will, of course they will be able to, many discs is allways an option however it has allways been a nasty option for a console. nobody likes switching discs. the last console game i remember in which I had to change discs was wing comander... and i hated that. way too many problems

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Multi discs is a fact of life and will be around for the next 10 years or until HDvd/BR wins over DVD.

Dude......do you even understand how they are getting data to stream off the BR games? by placement,dummy data,HD CACHING,better streaming algarithoms.

basically there is little difference in how devs make data work on DVD9, BR,BR needs dummy data to help place the data for quicker reading while DVD9 uses compression or algarithoms to help it.

so again they are the same and currently devs cant even handle a real 20GB game because of the loading issues on the PS3 this will be fixed in time but dont think innovation will stop for DVD9 data will be made smaller and more efficant for it while BR gains in efficacy in the end they both be doing the same thing "more data ,faster data ,better data".

Comment by: kuhne (Apr 04, 2007 20:44)

Multidisc is in my opinion something of the past when talking console gaming. in my opinion sony has the future in their sights

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Apr 05, 2007 01:22)

Originally posted by kuhne:

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Multidisc is in my opinion something of the past when talking console gaming. in my opinion sony has the future in their sights

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in part yes however its not FF proof(fool/future) like the N64 HDD it has allot going for it but almost as much against it,unlike the N64 HDD its more useful and should be helpful but not so much it will gain headway on it alone.

Also because of BR the cost is at least 200 higher than it "should" be that will hurt it in the short run but help it in the long run.

So to me BR for gaming is a working gimmick, its not "needed" but is nice to have.

Comment by: IOrificeI (Apr 05, 2007 01:56)

all im gonna say is one can of black spray paint and a piece of cardboard<>

lol im just gonna paint mine

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Apr 05, 2007 01:59)

Originally posted by IOrificeI:

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all im gonna say is one can of black spray paint and a piece of cardboard<>

lol im just gonna paint mine

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but tis already made out of glue paint and cardboard 0-o

...no bad....
if you can paint go for it I don't have the nack 0-o
would rather buy a case :X

FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.

Comment by: kuhne (Apr 05, 2007 02:09)

plus the n64 carts didnt play movies... bluray may become the industy standard for movies in the future... maybe...

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Apr 05, 2007 02:14)

Originally posted by kuhne:

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plus the n64 carts didnt play movies... bluray may become the industy standard for movies in the future... maybe...

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Meh its niche market plus they are 40$ movies making it even more nichey,its a working gimmick but a gimmick non the less.

BTW the n64 could run movies RE2 was one of the first cart games to have large movie files *L*

Comment by: kuhne (Apr 05, 2007 02:42)

They could run video but that was a dead format, nobody ever even imagined the posibility of buying movies in cartridges. Blu-ray or HD-DVD really have shot

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Apr 05, 2007 03:03)

kuhne
yes they do and one will replace the other in 3-6 years but in the scale of it all DVD is here to stay with the brunt of things being made on DVD first then being remade for Hdef discs,also besue these formats can paly DVD its going to shave 5 years off replaceing DVD as the main format but thats still 6-10 years off.

For now BR needs better data management for gaming mostly because of the limit the PS3 has on speed a streaming limit of 75MB the HDD is going to play a huge role in handling data I think,unless they find compression algorithms to speed up data transport funny thign abotu compressed data more can be sent thru it and quickly unpacked than moveing large ammoutns of data unpacked.

The PS3 is a monster in nearly everything it dose once they find how to maximize data flow you'll be seeing some nice stuff,but until then its hurting more than its helping.

Comment by: kuhne (Apr 05, 2007 03:26)

yeah but in reality both consoles are a bit screwed up when it comes to hardware, the main diference is that sony is just a bit quiet about the whole thing trying to figure out how to fix it and microsoft fixes it the way they allways do.. they just release a new one. Not that it'll fix anything. the xbox 360 is basicaly from a movie viewing machine point of view is lacking, now they add HDMI, so it is now a dvd player with HDMI.. unless you get the external adaptor.

I dont know, I think they really both are hurting when it comes to hardware, they are both capable of incredible graphics and I believe we will actualy be seeing games made for bluray in the not too far future. maybe by that time there will already be a ps4 but sony doesnt let their older systems die, just like ps2... it still is the most owned console in the planet, I think ps3 is gona have an even bigger lifespan than that because sony is known to squeeze all they can from their consoles even when the graphics suck, they still release good games for those consoles and when ps1 and ps2 launched, they werent regarded as the top of the heap when it came to graphics. they were good but they were easily outdone by the competition. Now Sony actualy has the most powerfull console out there, i see the ps3 going for a solid 10 years before it completly dies out

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Apr 05, 2007 03:41)

Originally posted by kuhne:

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yeah but in reality both consoles are a bit screwed up when it comes to hardware, the main diference is that sony is just a bit quiet about the whole thing trying to figure out how to fix it and microsoft fixes it the way they allways do.. they just release a new one. Not that it'll fix anything. the xbox 360 is basicaly from a movie viewing machine point of view is lacking, now they add HDMI, so it is now a dvd player with HDMI.. unless you get the external adaptor.

I dont know, I think they really both are hurting when it comes to hardware, they are both capable of incredible graphics and I believe we will actualy be seeing games made for bluray in the not too far future. maybe by that time there will already be a ps4 but sony doesnt let their older systems die, just like ps2... it still is the most owned console in the planet, I think ps3 is gona have an even bigger lifespan than that because sony is known to squeeze all they can from their consoles even when the graphics suck, they still release good games for those consoles and when ps1 and ps2 launched, they werent regarded as the top of the heap when it came to graphics. they were good but they were easily outdone by the competition. Now Sony actualy has the most powerfull console out there, i see the ps3 going for a solid 10 years before it completly dies out

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*nods nods*
I agree with most of it(I just don't see BR/Hdvd games getting out of a niche in 5ish years)
I keeping both eyes on sonys BWC they are arrogant enough to think they don't need it,they are removing the chip from new machines world wide as well as the US so the next revision wont have it making it play half as many PS2/PSX games but as long as they understand its part of the main picture of the PS3 I can let them off dcking with the hardware.

As for MS its a fing mess when it works it offers great things for the price but MS is bing sloppy in their approach.

I realy like the WII compared to them both as a game machine its solid and fun and has a ton of games coming for it unlike the other 2 that are jabbing at each other and playign with their dcks and and trying to hard be a media machine than a game machine.

Comment by: Andrew691 (Apr 05, 2007 07:40)

The way I see it its either get a 360 that has good software(games,live) but bad hardware, or get a PS3 which has potentially good hardware(hasnt yet proven itself) but still not a good software lineup. So you get one system with problems that can and are being fixed daily (ps3) or you get a system that needs to be replaced/repaired every few months. Then with M$ screwing their HDMI up it just gets worse for them. And the fact that HDD for 360 is optional thanks to the core system Devs dont have to bother with HDD caching, and most wont.(

Quote:

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6. Standard HDD
When we were developing for PS2, I was jealous of Xbox’s standard hard drive. There are so many things this allowed you to consider as a developer – virtually unlimited save data, improved load times, custom music, downloadable content and user-created content just to name a few. But since hard drives, no matter what the size, never get cheaper than about $50, Microsoft lost money trying to compete with the PS2’s price. That may be the reason they left it out of the cheaper Xbox 360 SKU, thinking that Sony would again leave out the hard drive on the PS3. Instead, Sony made the hard drive standard for both SKUs. This added to the cost of the PS3, but it also let developers use the HDD in games.

The problem with including a hard drive in one version of the 360 and not in the other is that developers can’t use it for the games. Or, at least, they can’t use it for any required features. When you are guaranteed to have at least a 20 GB hard drive in the console, you can write your load caching routines around it, or use it for your application’s storage needs. To a developer, an optional hard drive is roughly equivalent to no hard drive at all.

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From Insomniac games, believe you've seen the thread Zippy.

I personally would agree with everything said kuhne's first post.

On a side note I've just come into some unexpected money so if I can find one I might just get me a PS3 in a few days time, was pretty amazed to find out most places were sold out given the price, but from what info I could get each store only got like 4-5 consoles at launch then received another 2-3 a few days later.

EDIT: Apparently DVD also started out as a "niche" product also but look at it now...

Comment by: kuhne (Apr 05, 2007 13:29)

I lean more toward with Andrew691 but zippy knows what he is saying and it makes sense if it all pans out the way he does.


btw I agree with zippy about the Wii.. its just more fun and less heads up their asses

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Apr 05, 2007 13:49)

Andrew691
all standards start out as a niche,it took DVD 10ish years to gain the trust of the consumer and it was fighting LD witch was a monster and VHS witch was the standard,LD kinda imploded from bad hardware pressings and price so DVD was the only option and won out in the end.

HDVD and BR are equals in nearly all ways they have to finish the other off before they can take DVD,the battle with DVD will be short(3-6 years) because both support DVD and all you need is the hardware itself however the long messy battle is Hdvd vs. BR because of that mess I don't see one "winning" against DVD for at least 7 years the advancement in tech and price both should have 150 players in 4 years dual players should be cheap if not under 200,but there needs to be a clear winner for DVD to be toppled,however they can join forces or at least reasonably disagree and have hardware makers make dual players with that the "war" and they can both DP DVD either way they need to focus on DVD to topple it and currently they cant or wont.

the next 3 or 4 one of the next gen formats is going to trump the other dual players will be big so the winner will only gain most of hollywood while the other will be clung to over a few years during the fight with DVD,sicne Hdvd and BR is huge they could simply have manufactures build dual players make them "standard" and nuke DVD.


but in all DVD is here to stay for the the next 10 years as the brunt of what the media industries sale media on.

FIGHT THE M.A.F.I.A.A.

Comment by: chankya (Oct 24, 2007 07:18)

When the Ps2 is launched i am not that excited as i dont know anything about the games at that time. But when i< ahref="http://hubpages.com/hub/Copy_PS2_Games_Free"> copy PS2 games</a> than i get to realize why people are so crazy about the Play Station.But after that when i get news of PS3, I behaved like crazy.So,I think that Xbox-360 will not be able to catch up with PS3.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Oct 24, 2007 07:33)

Originally posted by chankya:

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When the Ps2 is launched i am not that excited as i dont know anything about the games at that time. But when i< ahref="http://hubpages.com/hub/Copy_PS2_Games_Free"> copy PS2 games</a> than i get to realize why people are so crazy about the Play Station.But after that when i get news of PS3, I behaved like crazy.So,I think that Xbox-360 will not be able to catch up with PS3.

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The 360 has sold 11 million units the PS3 5 million units and the WII has sold 12 million units sicne tis launch, the PS3 has to catch up with the rest, once it dose it should be able to stabilize itself and repair the damage to the brand..