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Comment by: sammorris (May 05, 2006 04:09)

At the rate PC gaming is going, you're looking at a £700($1250) system to run proper games properly, and a £2000($3500) system to run games at their full potential, if you can. With a lot of games that's not possible yet. You'll be looking at 4GB RAM minimum to get good performance out of games once Vista's around, it's ridiculous.

PS3 gets my vote for pretty much the same reason as you, zippy. (How's Bungle and george? lol)

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Comment by: handsom (May 05, 2006 13:29)

Well; first off, Deus Ex 2 was an original XBox title; not made for the 360. So you're taking a game that doesn't run halfway decent on most machines under 2.2ghz, with AT least 512 mb ram and a decent video card. Then try to reprogram same game; same engine, etc. to work on a system that is 700Mhz with only 64 mb ram that is SHARED for video with an onboard GeForce 3.

Even though you don't have windows hogging resources in the background; it was an unfeesible task to begin with. It should not have been attempted for the system. I think it would have been much smarter for them to consider waiting for a 360 port with lots of extras; because that might have done really well. But then again, Ion Storm was pretty much in pieces by the end of the dev cycle. So that seems unavoidable.

I'm really tired of hearing that Microsoft is stealing computer games. Really. This is about the worst strike I've heard against the XBox because it has no logical backing. M$ does not create those ports. M$ doesn't pay for them. In fact, the game companies come to M$, and pay THEM to be allowed to make the game for the XBox. M$ happened to have a system that had the best hardware, and was therefore the closest gap between pc and console specs. And towards the last year or two; it became a gap that many game companies shouldn't have jumped; because some ports came about that were really hard to swallow for me. *cough* Doom 3 *cough*. But again; that is a decision by the developer and publisher, not by M$. You don't even see them porting most of their computer series to the 360, Dungeon Siege, Age of Empires, Age of Mythology....

Q1-3 weren't actually produced for the xbox (Although, I did find a way to run it on mine *SCORE!*), because they were considered older titles, with a lower profitability by the time XBox hit shelves, not to mention the Online Live service that I have come to know and love.

Quake 4 was; indeed; a horrible port, I was actually just posting about it in another thread yesterday. ID games allowed Raven Software (An owned subsidiary, comprised of texture/modeling/mapping specialists) to produce Quake 4 using the Doom 3 engine. That was good; they are experts and created a very solid pc title. Unfortunately; ID also allowed them to be responsible for the 360 port. This was a HUGE mistake. Raven has never *done* a port before. This was their first attempt. They didn't know what they were doing. ID should have taken the helm of this one themselves (Here's looking at you, John Carmack) and done a good dirty port for the code, allowing it to better work with the 360's hardware. And it wouldn't have been difficult, for two reasons. The Xbox, as well as the 360 use XNA which combines the Direct X code common to so many pc games already, and both XBox's bear strikingly strong resemblances (Hardware-wise) to most common home pc's. The similar hardware and code make it easier for most companies to do a port; but raven had never done their own port before, so they basically didn't know *anything* about what they were doing, it was an entirely new set of hardware, it had never been used majorly before, and they had never done any kind of port before. It doesn't matter how simple M$ makes it; it was doomed to be bad. If ID had done it themselves; they could have made a vastly superior port in a fraction of the time. But it does bring me to wonder what ID is working on themselves right now. I haven't heard anything of a new project from them; but they are pushing all their big stuff since Doom 3 onto subsidiaries and out-sourced contract companies to just use their current engine... So, I want to know what's so important they're working on instead of Quake 4, Quake Wars, etc, etc. Is it the widely rumored 4th Wolfenstein Title?

Anyways M$ doesn't make the majority of games, nor do they do the ports themselves. They leave that to other companies who choose to do it of their own free will; and even pay for the privelage to do it.

It seems odd to be saying that the 360 is for the mindless money spender; considering it has features that the PS3 isn't even trying to claim it will match (See: Live features, downloads, buddy lists, intergaming chat, hard-drive used for games and able to play user's music in game, more). While the PS3 is looking to have slightly better hardware and a $500 price tag. Now; without arguing features, and without going back to the childish "My system is better, you're a dumbhead" argument; I am curious to know why:

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The 360 is built for the mindless money spending casual gamer.

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When the hardware being so close (as recent reports and public announcements have made clear) and the price tag of the PS3 looking like $500us dollars, *possibly* $400, but that's a weaker, less sourced rumor. How is it that *this* system is for the casual, money spending gamer? And mindless? Honestly. Look at all the extra features this system has, even above gaming, like browsing photos and video from your hard drive in high def, even listening to your pc's music collection while playing on live. This system does leaps and bounds more than anything else on the market. It has unprecedented usability and functionality; so how does that fit the 'mindless' money spender?

I'll be really frank; you're resorting to name-calling on that one. And I don't think you have anything to back up that statement; because you've given no grounds for it; and all the facts point that you're wrong about it. Maybe I missed something. It's entirely possible, I make mistakes. But I don't see the logic or reasoning to your 'mindless' statement.

[And yes, Sammorris, the N64 had heat sinks, which would make adding LEDs and even fans rather challenging, but fun. How cool would it be to do the high speed tweak; and have added cooling functionality, as well as extra lighting? ....The joys of having a backup system that was free.]

One more thing; the 'quality' statement on the Q1-3 to quake 4. I really want to hear more on this, because I think you're giving a rather quick opinion that doesn't have much substance or thought. Quake 3 was entirely multiplayer (playing bots in a score based arena doesn't warrant a single player mode.) It was a great multiplayer mode, but that's all it was. Quake 4 kept that SAME multiplayer mode, with new maps. And had a storyline again; which was sorely missed on quake 3 (Despite the fact that I *still* enjoy playing it). Quake 4 had vastly improved graphics; and you can tell me that's wrong till you're blue in the face, but any comparable screenshot will indicate that you'd be wrong. So, let's see here; improved graphics, same multiplayer online action with new maps, more advanced AI that was smarter than any other quake game(They actually realized on occasion that they were outgunned, low on health, and screwed), and a continuance of the storyline that made Quake 2(And it's ad-ons) so good, while even giving a brand new twist on the series. Given it wasn't the longest title in existence, it certainly wasn't the shortest by any means. Quake one wasn't a terribly long single player experience. Quake 2 was a good length, but only felt complete with the expansions, and Quake 3's single was a pre-set botmatch series that came out feeling somewhat forced by the end.

So; I really don't get the complaint you have on 'quality' for Quake 4. The only issue was a very rare and occasional slow-down issue that most users only encountered at unusual moments. And again; that was a bad call; giving Raven such a potentially high-profile title.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (May 05, 2006 15:50)

Hanson

about qauilty Q1-Q3 and Q4....not everythign revoles around the Xbox,quailty is qauilty regardless of the system nd Q4 is on the lower end of medicoreness at best..

I guess you where never a PC gamer the PC has all that and its being left in the dust so the Xbox and 360 will live,this is the companies choice and hell it seems ALL the publishers and devs are thinking like that to a point.

The graphics on Q4 mean shit if you dont like it I hated Q4 so much out of the box I desided to finish the SP side befor desidieng whether not to take it back or not,you forget they had MP sever and other troubles out of the box whitch are kind of fixed now,as for MP with the limited models it dose feel like its less than Q2-Q3 it might have more maps but that dosnet help that limited new game feel.

Uummm have you palyed god of war? I am trying to finish it on hard I have not and its been a month 0-o

Plus GOW has the best damn Action gameplay controls.

and KOTOR is PC frist *L*

PS3 has better tech more games and blu ray out of the box moive nuts looking for the enxt big hardware thing might go ga ga over it.

But the PS3 has the market share anyway or at elast when it comes out it should.the 360 is a niche machine like the Cube and the Rev,altho I think they are better focused at thier amrket than the 360 is

I dont mean your a mindless gamer,I ment thats what it feels like everything is being watered down for them,and well on the whole gameing seems to be suffering alittle in qauilty...again you dont seem to understand what I mean be qauilty

Q4

Level design

Q2 had well built intracit levels Q4s are simple gun and runs,hell D3 at elast tired to but hidden and secrts in it...didnt work to well but at elast they tried *L*

this is my biggest gripe I mean Q2 had 2 or 4 hidden levels for chrish sake >>

the AI didnt seem to bright Q3s seemed to be a bit smarter but eh I only palyed thru Q4 twice to see if I missed anything once on normal and once on hard but meh all games seem to have iffy AI now and then *L*

the weapons are simple Q3 ports with some updsates and upgrades every few levels not that bad but soem of thema re a bit weak,god weak weapons is why I stoped palying UT 03..that and the 8Ball rocket launcher was tossed out >> UT o4 is a bit more fun but the weapons still feel nerfed...

Dose Q4 have Localized damage?it didnt feel like it,for soem strange reason they didnt put it in or removed it from DX IW its odd and annoying

No item belt basic voice acting (it feels like they got 2 or 4 good VAs and they did everythign for the game 0-o),to me Q2 while not perfect it is at the least twice what Q4 is sure Q4 might have a story where Q2 didnt but a medicore story is not going to save a midecore game,look where the game was and look where it is while your at it look at FPSs in genreal over the years and Q4 aint nothign new the only thing I can tell it has "new" in it it the upgrades over time,whitch is not bad butit dosent help the game much...

look at DX IW its have finished the weapon mods and bio mods need to be redone the inventory is horried the controll shcemes are lacking but then this is what you get with rushed games publishers should just step off >> I ahve seen one to many "good" games die becuse the publishers didnt let the games be finished.

Altho I guess I am wrong to enjoy Doom 1 that has insanely good level design for a flat world simpel shoot till you drop game paly and D3 has bland level design and a story set in a badly darkened world...man what was carmack smokeing frist he males this uber engine then he tries to hide it in darkness >< *L*

Sorry aobut my incoheranceness *L* I apologize if I insulted you,I merely mean to me a jaded and fickle gamer that knows the games I loved or at least liked it feels like the industry is slacking in order to produce simple games for the masses.

You have valid points about the 360s games being more for adlut and they have some classic PC game seris and other titles that feel liek they would have been on the PC if it were not for them,I hope they are great uniqe games I would liek to the the 360 take from the Xbox its unqie games and make them into qauilty titles,I like Odd US amde low end RPGs the Xbox has acouple titles,Ever paly Aydian Chronicals for he N64 that was a crazy little RPG in bad need of acouple patchs but it turn out to be rather fun ^^

the way thigns are going I am starting to aprchant the odd under the radar titles.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (May 05, 2006 15:54)

Holy crap looks like I am buying UT 04,soemone made a total conversion of Dues ex 1...*drool* I hope they left the evil aiming setup out *L*

Comment by: handsom (May 05, 2006 15:58)

Really? That's totally off topic; but AWESOME! I just reloaded that onto my system and remembered how awful it looked; but if they ported a UT2k4 version; I'm all for it! WEWT!

[We definitely agree on something.]

Comment by: ZippyDSM (May 05, 2006 16:48)

handsom

I was talking a bit about O3s...nerfy weapons and 04s weak weapons but at least it has vehicels

*poke*

didnt read it eh :P

but anyway OMG drool ^^ I bet it will take me a week to download on dailup ><

Deus Ex: Reborn Website

Deus Ex: Reborn Forum

Deus Ex: Reborn ModDb Page

BTW you think DX 1 looks bad try palyign DX IW on the comp...at the mod cominty is tryign to fix it the config tool puts all the effects back in and the tex pack makes it look as good or better than the Xbox,to bad the SDK aint out yet so they can overhaul the codeing *L*

Comment by: ZippyDSM (May 05, 2006 16:52)

crap its not done yet >< but heck its a reason to buy 04 *L*

weeeee!

ggaa between watching Star wars and talking about KOTOR I want to buy them for the both for the PC lost 1 in the moves I did last year ><

Comment by: sammorris (May 05, 2006 18:01)

Quote:

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The graphics on Q4 mean shit if you dont like it

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That's actually a good point, Albeit vulgar. I haven't yet played Quake 4 but I want to despite what people say. Everything that people use as reasons for it being bad excite me making me want to play it. Simple and mindless, who cares? So am I in a few respects!

Hanson, you are arguing a relatively good point and I agree about the quakes, but despite being right about Zippy's statement, you are downplaying the PS3's superior abilities somewhat. Admittedly the non-games and films aspect of the PS series isn't going to match M$'s effort, but I cannnot let go of a half-price new technology DVD player coupled with an out of this world gaming machine.

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Comment by: ZippyDSM (May 06, 2006 00:42)

sammorris

Q4 is bearable for msot gamers I guess ,I am a fan of Q2 and see Q4 as nothing but eye candy ,plus add all the other good fps I ahve palyed and it goes from bad to worse 0-o

sorry my vocablary flucates with my IQ *L*

But its ture Eye candy gets rotten fast,while depth in gmaepaly and story last,Its liek FFX great story bad voice acting worse gamepaly,I realy wish sicne they dont higher a good VA staff theyd leave the japaanse tracks in ;_; that and take the effort to code in a small subtitle line for simple on screen subing uhg

I might downpaly the PS3s domenance only becuse its not here yet they still ahve a chance to mess up but meh I dout it,the 360 has a higher chance of getting Japanase devs on board than the PS3 has to fail or have a bad launch.

Comment by: sammorris (May 06, 2006 06:48)

They have a chance to mess up, but a lower one for the exact reason you quoted, it's not out yet. The 360 only had a very poor launch because it was released too early.

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Comment by: ZippyDSM (May 07, 2006 00:21)

sammorrisabout my FFX comment I forgot to add I rmeember it for 2 reasons mian reasons good stry and messed up gamepaly (fighitng was annoying but the weapon/equipment setup was frustrateing as hell)

The level up setup they had in it was nice to,but I mainly rmeember thos 2 things.

Cant wait for the PS3 to come out thats the one to watch ^^

360 is a let down,in a year or 2 it might be a complete system but untill then theres nothign for me to sink my teeth in.

Comment by: sammorris (May 07, 2006 07:47)

And to top it all off, both the 360 demo units were out of order in my local shops (Game, HMV) on Friday. Fantastic.

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Comment by: glitchzoo (May 07, 2006 08:11)

@ sam morris u nsty person :(
erm 360s are crap do u want to beat mine up with me??????
microsoft are rubbish with cutting costs etc

Comment by: sammorris (May 07, 2006 08:46)

Quote:

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SHUT UP ALL OF YOU LEAVE THE 360 ALONE.

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Awww, we hurt your feelings? We're not mindlessly going "oh the 360's rubbish" "360 suxx0rs!!, PS3 r0xx0rs!!" we're pointing out its flaws in an intelligent, forum-worthy manner. You just love the 360 to bits and can't stand the criticism.

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but the gammes are exxerlent ad are betterthe ps2 (oviouslly like 10 x more powerfull),

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Yes the games are better than the PS2, but the 360's four years newer, and a generation apart. Fair comparison? The games themselves aren't more powerful, the console is, yet my PS2 doesn't overheat and crash, and I can move it when it's running and not destroy my discs! It uses the same disc technology as the 360, and on a select few games you can output an HD signal, the two aren't worlds apart.

Quote:

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and who the hell was saying that ninteno is going to kick xbox 360 ass! you need help. reverlution is half as poewrful then xbox 360.

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So it's all about power is it? Nintendo have explicitly said the console isn't designed to be powerful, it's designed to be fun. Hell knows I get just as much enjoyment (if not more) out of my 90mhz N64 as my 300mhz PS2 or my 2165mhz PC - power's irrelevant. The Wii shows real potential despite the name, and I have every faith it will come close to the 360's sales, Japanese sales for the 360 have been practicaly non-existant, you can bet your life hey'll be more than significant for Wii.

Quote:

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[anyways who cared which is better at the end of the day they do what their ment to ; play games.

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A little bit contradictory to what you just said, but I agree with it.

Quote:

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but the poor ps2 an gamecube they can barley do that.

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And why's this? Not only can a PS2 play games better (i.e. without crashing) than your precious 360, but it's a first class DVD player on top of that, hardly what I'd call Barely playing games.

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Comment by: glitchzoo (May 07, 2006 09:37)

firstly sammorris,

your post was to long so i didnt read it all,

and secondly your mean! im telling bill gates everythink you just said youve angered him.

and thirdly i dont acually care anymore the 360 and ps3 are better then each other in diffrent ways so there.

now leave me alone. mean person!

Comment by: sammorris (May 07, 2006 09:39)

Quote:

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your post was to long so i didnt read it all

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That's too long? Evidently you don't read much at afterdawn.

Quote:

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and secondly your mean! im telling bill gates everythink you just said youve angered him.

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What exactly are you trying to prove? Most of the time I'd read that as sarcasm, but you just seem to be an idiot.

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Comment by: glitchzoo (May 07, 2006 14:30)

im not an idiot and no i dont spend all day reading peoples posts. i HAVE A LIFE.

dude i dont care what console is better ok. i couldnt care less now that i think about it, at the end of the day a console just plays games and makes you lazy...

Comment by: hot_ice (May 07, 2006 15:19)

@glitchzoo

"i HAVE A LIFE."

This is a statement reflective of an individual who easily acquiesces in light of more refined reasoning.

@sammoris

Labeling someone an idiot, is quite lame as it attacks the person rather than his or her's poorly structured premises to his or her's argument (as is the case with glitchzoo which apparently has a life, yet by contradiction, still have time to reply to your queries)

Back to the topic at hand, the Japanese sales of Xbox 360 will pale in comparison to the PS3, and it will most certainly become another unmemorable flop of an already unmemorable console.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (May 07, 2006 16:55)

sammorris

go get im *L*

hot_ice

I'll admit I am a idoit,but when most people read some thigns....it starts the idiot alarms

"SHUT UP ALL OF YOU LEAVE THE 360 ALONE. "

"but the gammes are exxerlent ad are betterthe ps2 "

Oh well if tis only 2 hes doing good you can find twice that in my posts *L*

glitchzoo

...*sigh* what can I say that has not already been said,Power dose not eaqule rule,support dse,the PS2 has more support than the 360 and Xbox combined,The Rev will have downloadable games of SNES,Genisis,N64,Turbo graph (and CD I hope) plus GC plus rev games that alone will help it fight if not out "mucsel" the 360,the 360 is a desent system but much liek teh Xbox it will have to fight nintendo over whos going to be number 2 again.

Now then I have a headache and will return to my hole mew =0_o=

Comment by: sammorris (May 07, 2006 16:58)

glitchzoo: My how people change.

hot_ice: Calling someone an idiot is admittedly very derogatory and I had second thoughts about doing it, but to be honest one wonders whether he would have understood it any other way.

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Comment by: handsom (May 07, 2006 17:11)

@glitchzoo

Before going any further, I would like to point out one thing:

No. You don't have a life. You're here, responding to insult after insult, and you're changing your own perspective within one single post, as though it was that way the entire time. And you very much need to find the spellcheck option on your computer.

I hear a lot of arguments about game systems, all over the place. It's quite common. And I'm able to keep my head above water in all of them; because I have a logic and reasoning behind my opinions. And I have the understanding that while my opinions are the product of an unhealthy number of hours gaming and modding; they are just that.... Opinions.

I'm used to being the odd man out in console talk; even though I can accurately keep ahead of the pack. But quite frankly, it's only around people like you, that I ever actually feel embarassed to be an XBox fan. You make me sad Timmy. That's a bad, bad little Timmy.

Yes; I do downplay the PS3; I've done a whole heck of a lot of research; and on multiple occasions over AD, I've brought my proof to the table. I wouldn't post such strong statements without having it. However; I do not ever say that it is inferior to anything. It is simply on par. And that is the only point I make here. It is NOT vastly ahead of the competition, not at all. It has hardware that is capable of a little bit more. Which is always nice, and on occasion, can be the trick to winning a console race. So it may work perfectly for that.

I do downplay the Blu-ray functionality, for reasons that I've stated in other threads. And that is that most studios don't have recordings in the 1080p range. The film used in most technicolor (Still the most commonly used camera in Hollywood; bar none.) is not capable of producing more than a 720p image, and even that requires some significant touching up. That's not a strike against the technology; that's a statment that the technology, while wonderful, has no practical use in the marketplace.

Also; the wonderful 1080p gaming that Sony has promised; has been decried by developers, saying that while the hardware is excellent; full resolution, 1080p using current graphics standard technology is not feesible on the current unit. It is still too demanding. They are downscaling to 720p; a method that allows the impression of slightly smoother images. But not by much. And realistically, it won't be noticable in any bad sort of way. It simply means that the 720p televisions will show the exact same image as any higher quality set. Again; not a bad thing, it just means that one of their biggest statements is now bunk.

Although; while lower than originally stated, the contained processor's power is above the 360. I am wondering how that will come into play with the 256 mb system memory. They took a different approach than M$ did. M$ used 512mb shared for video and everything, and SOny seperated them into 256 for video, and 256 for system. I've done comparisons with systems, where the cpu a is about 1ghz faster than cpu b; but computer with cpu b still outperforms a if it has significantly more memory. I don't know how much this might come into play with consoles, seeing as their isn't some annoying os eating up memory in the background, so it may not be the same at all with these two competitors.

All said and done, the performance specs have been made available, comparing the *processor* power of a 360, a 3.6ghz 64bit HT P4, and a PS3. The pc came in lowest, with the 360 about 7 times better scored, and the ps3 beating the computer by about 8. Again; memory might or might not have anything to do with the performance, but if it causes the same caveat as in PCs, this could be one very interesting run.

I still haven't heard any reply to indicate what single one thing was bad about quake 4, compared to the older ones, no one is giving me any reason at all; other than the fact that it quite clearly isn't Quake 2. And that is only as screamingly loud as to say that Halo isn't the same as Marathon. Now; I may have gone terribly over some people's heads with that reference, or they may think I'm referring to some old atari game; but that's okay, judging from the way glitchzoo here posts; I'm sure that at least he's used to that happening.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (May 07, 2006 17:40)

handsom

wow *takes own brain out and cleans it* I hope I can be as coherant as you one day ;_;

I try and keep thigns simple thus I dont drowen myself in thought or word.

Comment by: hot_ice (May 07, 2006 19:08)

Ok, let's get one thing clear, if you enjoy the console because it offers a wide array of games that suit your pleasurability so to speak, then you don't really care if the processor of the console can send you to the ends of the universe in awe.

Let's face it, the Xbox or the PS3, might have better graphics, but when it comes to it, its the games you play, and how you interact online, that either sours or ripens your experience.

Personally, I enjoy the PS2, because there are more titles that cater to my needs than the Xbox does. But to be honest, once I am done with it, I am giving it away.

Now, in regards to the Japanese release, it makes more sense logically to assume that the PS3 will wipe the floor with the Xbox360 because the product originates from Japan, and probably the marketing that goes behind its promotion, will make an outsider console a long forgotten memory.

@Zippy

I am not sure what you wrote, either it is directed to me, or people in general, I am uncertain as to the ambiguity of your statement. However, progress has been made, I got a team of decipherers working to translate your statements...hehehehehe No, no, I am just joking.

@Sammoris

Still, it hurts other people's feelings, even though the person might seem unintelligible...

@glitchzoo

"The spurious inferences from obsolescent notions of causality" apply to you when suggesting you have a life.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (May 07, 2006 21:11)

hot_ice

hehehehe :P

Ture one must holds one toung when cussing or name calling but sometiems it slips 0-o *toung falls out and I give chase* 0.o

Comment by: sammorris (May 08, 2006 07:28)

Quote:

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I'm used to being the odd man out in console talk; even though I can accurately keep ahead of the pack. But quite frankly, it's only around people like you, that I ever actually feel embarassed to be an XBox fan. You make me sad Timmy. That's a bad, bad little Timmy.

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Lol well said!

But overall this thread is beginning to become drivel. We just have to wait. if they sell more PS3s than 360s, we'll know!

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