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Comment by: Joshewah (Jul 20, 2011 22:35)

Every time a new console is on the horizon lofty promises of 'realism' are made but never come to fruition in the final product.

I'm tired of hearing s*** like "in games like Grand Theft Auto will be given individual mentalities, removing them from the unrealistic "mob mentality" of current games." NO. This will not happen.

All that WILL happen are an increase of polygons and what ever resembles realism will be marred by the limitations of a 12 button controller.

Been there.
Done that.
Promises will be broken.

/rant

Comment by: ruff4life (Jul 21, 2011 02:32)

LOL Preach on Brother. Even though I do have to disagree. Tech gets better and faster ever year and considering the fact that the first games were blocks it's only right to assume that sooner or later a game changer will appear. Graphically I've seen changes in PC games that make you want to give up console games. But there is always the next gen console that brings you right back.
The biggest thing MS can do for their systems besides enhanced graphics and AI is stop limiting the potential of their systems and games by forcing programmers to use their drivers for their peripherals when there are better drivers for better peripherals.

Comment by: nonoitall (Jul 21, 2011 05:21)

Yeah, this is an exaggeration by far. Unless they've found a way to pack Avatar's 10,000 square foot server farm into a little box and speed it up considerably in the past couple years since Avatar was produced. Tech advances quickly, but I don't think a ~100,000x increase in two years quite fits into Moore's Law.

Comment by: dali (Jul 21, 2011 14:25)

Originally posted by nonoitall:

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Yeah, this is an exaggeration by far. Unless they've found a way to pack Avatar's 10,000 square foot server farm into a little box and speed it up considerably in the past couple years since Avatar was produced. Tech advances quickly, but I don't think a ~100,000x increase in two years quite fits into Moore's Law.

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Of course, you are absolutely right. And, even if they had, Avatar's FX were not shot in real time; they were rendered offline, in post-prod stage.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 21, 2011 14:52)

So what about 360 backwards compatibility?

Comment by: dali (Jul 21, 2011 15:04)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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So what about 360 backwards compatibility?

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It will surely be emulated using the processor of a smartphone belonging to one of that "individual-thinking" GTA pedestrians. :DDD

Comment by: Azuran (Jul 21, 2011 17:34)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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So what about 360 backwards compatibility?

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Of course. For $5 a game.

Comment by: Sudds (Jul 21, 2011 18:16)

Hows about throwing more RAM into the consoles..... 4gigs at least.

Comment by: Interestx (Jul 21, 2011 19:46)

My own little rule of thumb used to be that whatever the current consoles could do in FMV then that would be what you'd see as the standard of the playable graphics in the next gen.

I'm expecting DX11 & 1080p@60Hz to be standard across the board and a stack of media hub ability, but what else is there will be interesting I'm sure.

I'm looking forward to seeing what we're going to be offered, my bet is they'll show it off in spring/summer 2012 to be sold in 2013 - with 1 of them to surpise us all & go on sale at Christmas 2012.

The really impressive part will be seeing if they are capable of ditching the silly very high launch price-tags we are used to seeing.

Comment by: KillerBug (Jul 22, 2011 03:59)

It is a console from microsoft...it will launch with graphics and processor power less than that of a typical gaming PC, and (if history is a guide) only 512MB of ram.

As for individual personalities, many games already have this...they just take a lot of shortcuts in GTA games, and GTA4 is a rather old game anyway. Shoot someone in a crowd in fallout new vegas...some will run, some will cower in fear, some will attack you. There is a lot more that could be done with this...but not without ram, and consoles NEVER get enough ram.

Comment by: Interestx (Jul 22, 2011 04:41)

KillerBug

The Xbox 360 currently has 512mb of GDDR3 ram.

I think it's highly unlikely that they would not up the amount, particularly as everyone but everyone is saying it is the current bottleneck to all of this gen of consoles.

I'd expect at least 2gbs of GDDR5 ram in the next round of consoles.

Comment by: buxtahuda (Jul 22, 2011 15:48)

Originally posted by Interestx:

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KillerBug

The Xbox 360 currently has 512mb of GDDR3 ram.

I think it's highly unlikely that they would not up the amount, particularly as everyone but everyone is saying it is the current bottleneck to all of this gen of consoles.

I'd expect at least 2gbs of GDDR5 ram in the next round of consoles.

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Aye, but expectations always run high... I doubt they'll do more than a gig, considering past trends and the fact that you can't release a complete console to begin with. Gotta make money off an incomplete/inferior product, then release a "new" one several years later under the guise of "upgrades." (Except for PS3's. You never ever release a fully functioning awesome-box ever on that end. Would make the paying customers far too happy.)

Anywho, screw next-gen. Took me years to finally convert up to PS3/360. I can't see me doing it again after spending all this time and money making my PS3 awesome with games and downloads, not unless my HD crashes...

Comment by: xaznboitx (Jul 23, 2011 01:16)

I would not buy new xbox til I see any improvement that the console would not break down more than a year or before the year or after the year is up.

I would not buy new xbox if the cheapest have a hard drive or doesn't allow 3rd party hard drive which can be used more than the 360 would allow it (external hard drive). I really hope the console would allow laptop hard drive.

Comment by: KillerBug (Jul 23, 2011 09:57)

Originally posted by Interestx:

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KillerBug

The Xbox 360 currently has 512mb of GDDR3 ram.

I think it's highly unlikely that they would not up the amount, particularly as everyone but everyone is saying it is the current bottleneck to all of this gen of consoles.

I'd expect at least 2gbs of GDDR5 ram in the next round of consoles.

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I thought that the 512MB was shared between video and system, resulting in a little less than 256MB system ram under most conditions...is this wrong?

Comment by: Interestx (Jul 23, 2011 20:13)

Well let's put it like this, PS2 if I remember rightly had 32mb of ram.
The mk1 Xbox had 64mb.

This gen depending on how you look at it (PS3 certainly has an unusual way of dividing its ram up) has 256 or 512mb of ram.

So, is a jump to 2gb really so much given the jump from the last (PS2/mk1 Xbox) gen to this one (and considering how cheap ram is right now)?

I can't see 1gb of ram being credible, it would be too little right now and I doubt they plan on releasing a console short of ram right from the off....although I have no doubt that 5yrs after it is launched 2gb of ram will be seen as too little too.

Quote:

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xaznboitx
I would not buy new xbox til I see any improvement that the console would not break down more than a year or before the year or after the year is up.

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Fair enough.....but seeing as we've already really had that (the Xbox Slim is as reliable as anything out there) why hold on to such an outdated idea?

Comment by: KillerBug (Jul 24, 2011 06:44)

The PS3 divides up ram between system and video the same way that a high-end gaming PC does it, the 360 uses the same method as a low-end laptop with no gaming support at all...the 360 is the one with weird memory.

Remember, no one believed that they were actually releasing the PS3 with only 512MB combined memory because even back then this was a tiny amount of memory for a cheap single-core PC, let alone a CELL system.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 24, 2011 11:06)

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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The PS3 divides up ram between system and video the same way that a high-end gaming PC does it, the 360 uses the same method as a low-end laptop with no gaming support at all...the 360 is the one with weird memory.

Remember, no one believed that they were actually releasing the PS3 with only 512MB combined memory because even back then this was a tiny amount of memory for a cheap single-core PC, let alone a CELL system.

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And both suffer from not having enough memory IMO. If they had twice as much devs would not be so bitchy about development. Still the 360 is showing its age and the PS3 has no real weaknessness at this point and time.

Comment by: Interestx (Jul 24, 2011 14:28)

Quote:

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ZippyDSM
Still the 360 is showing its age and the PS3 has no real weaknessness at this point and time.

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Pack it in Zippy.
Besides the Blu-ray drive the 2 consoles are both pretty much identical in what they can do.
Funnily enough my PS3 owning pal was amazed that there is such little between them, the power of advertising propaganda, eh?

But both it seems are, periodic small software tweaks aside, maxed out.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 24, 2011 14:35)

Originally posted by Interestx:

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Quote:

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ZippyDSM
Still the 360 is showing its age and the PS3 has no real weaknessness at this point and time.

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Pack it in Zippy.
Besides the Blu-ray drive the 2 consoles are both pretty much identical in what they can do.
Funnily enough my PS3 owning pal was amazed that there is such little between them, the power of advertising propaganda, eh?

But both it seems are, periodic small software tweaks aside, maxed out.

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Oy......
They are not the same the PS3 can push a lil more and dose not have the space limits of the 360, also games are held down by the 360 they really can't go all out on the PS3, still if the 360 had a BR drive at the end of the day there would be no practical difference as they would cater to the 360 since its half the market for AAA games.

I think the pS3 can do better but not by much the 360 needs repalceing but I fear we will get another 360 with handicapped BWC.

Comment by: Interestx (Jul 24, 2011 16:36)

Zippy, be honest, outside of the fanboy obsessive circles nobody sees any serious differences.
Besides there's a perfectly good reason why there is so little between them.
Microsoft saw the PS3's specs in development.


They have never done anything with all that BD space but cram in more 1080p FMV, nobody suddenly got vastly bigger games due to BD.

What do you mean "games are held down by the 360 they really can't go all out on the PS3"?
What about Sony?
Sony's studios make plenty of 1st party games and they certainly aren't holding back for the Xbox.
Despite a handful of games with marginally better metacritic scores there is no great gulf between them when they go all out as you seem to be implying.

I don't understand your "I fear we will get another 360 with handicapped BWC" comment either.
It is the 360 that has the best BWC ever offered on a console, literally hundreds of Xbox mk1 games work perfectly on the 360 & OK a minority of Xbox mk1 games do have some issues (sometimes very minor sometimes not so minor).
That's still much better than the PS3 currently offers (and from the rumours the next Xbox will continue this welcome trend, offering lots of BWC and improvements in the look of the games, like better spec PCs can do).

I don't see how you can look at the spec leap between Xbox mk1 and the 360 and worry that Microsoft aren't going to do much more than reheat the 360.
That makes no sense - and it certainly does not fit with what little info is coming out about it.

In fact with Sony's financial troubles I'd say it is far more likely that they will be the ones offering more of a PS3.5 in an effort to recoup their vast accumulated losses on PS3 from R&D, to launch and to date
(it's still not entirely clear if they make money, or much money, on the slim as they have had to offer bundles & discounts pretty much everywhere).

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 24, 2011 17:09)

Interestx

I'll agree to most of that, I think sony handicaped it from the start but so did MS and the 360. At the end of the day the PS3 can go another 5 years the 360 not so much.

If you want to get into losses the 360 lost more between the Xbox and 360 fail rates so meh, long of it is the 360 needs replaceing in the next 2-3 years the PS3 much much less so. As much as I love the WII nintendo pissed on it then with the last of precision it made it with and then took a crap on it with the WU..... I have no fcking clue whats going on with nin other than riding the micro transaction flash game want to be craze.....


Also I wish the PS4 will be a 1.5 system if its like the WII then it can run PS3 games with no trouble,maybe even toss in proper PS2 play/emulation finally!

Comment by: Interestx (Jul 24, 2011 18:15)

Zippy

I have a strong feeling that when it comes ti it we are going to see 3 systems that look quite similar in the next gen.
There will be differences but I think the big cap on things is the 1080p res HD TV now imposes.

That's why I think Sony will be happy to sell an improved but basically similar PS3 with more horsepower to run everything @ 1080p/60Hz.

I also think that they (both MS & Sony) are watching Wii U for the pricing points they will enter the market at.
The days of a $600 launch system are, in my opinion, over.

But, let's face it, with more ram, bigger hard drives and faster processors I think we'll all end up happy.
The next gen will look better & be capable of more.

(and, let's be honest about this, more than a few PS3 & Xbox 360 owners are quite satisfied with what they are getting as things are now, several say they see no serious reason for change right now. Personally I look forward to seeing what's coming next, so long as they don't cost an arm & a leg & genuinely are an advance over current tech)

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jul 24, 2011 20:46)

Interestx

I dunno about happy, I am still pissed content is being watered down as much as it is I want games not interactive films ><

As for price get ready for another 400/500$ down the drain for a non BWC unit. I would be surprised to see it anywhere near the 299 range.