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Comment by: Interestx (Jul 14, 2011 03:46)

Originally posted by jos22:

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why would someone want to watch bluray movie via component cables. ,might as well just stick with DVD.

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I think you mean composite cable (like Svideo it is limited to SD resolutions).
Component is perfectly well capable of outputting 1080p (although another agreement limited many to 720p/1080i).

You're right to some degree tho, for many it probably isn't a change that will mean much as they already use HDMI.
But for those with limited connectivity the component option was handy.
It's just another little bit of flexibility we used to have (be allowed) taken away & shut down leaving the DRM-laden option being forced upon us all.

Lots of devices used component connections to carry HD, it's not just "old" lower res stuff.

Comment by: KillerBug (Jul 14, 2011 03:48)

It is the principal of the thing. They are trying to force people to buy new TVs if they want to use their new PS3 in HD. Component might not be as good as HDMI, but it does give you 1080i output, which is a heck of a lot better than composite or even s-video.

The really annoying part is that they claim it is some kind of anti-piracy measure. Copying blu-rays is fast and easy and can be done 100% digitally with no loss in quality (actually the quality goes up since you can remove DRM and forced trailers). There is absolutely no reason to play a bluray from your PS3 and then capture that with a tuner card...it takes longer, the quality is lower, and the file size is larger. The fact is that there is only one reason to capture the output of a PS3: to make "let's play" videos...and those sell games.

Comment by: brockie (Jul 14, 2011 12:57)

this is the movie standard for every device you can still play games & do other things the same way.

Comment by: xaznboitx (Jul 14, 2011 19:49)

would there be price drop for ps3 now?

Comment by: xnonsuchx (Jul 14, 2011 20:44)

BTW, stand-alone BD players will be dropping component support by 2014 (earlier for newly designed models) too to comply with the same agreement. It's hardly just a PS3 thing. Luckily for some, the agreement doesn't require existing firmware-upgradeable devices to try to disable the ability via firmware.

Comment by: IPRFenix (Jul 14, 2011 23:13)

Component is capable of 1920x1080 progressive @ 60hz. This can be confirmed by checking the Wikipedia entry, or various other sources.

Unless your display exceeds 1920x1080, a component cable is perfectly sufficient.

The vast majority (as in, well over 90% of all displays) of displays which clearly boast/list a refresh rate over 60hz may OUTPUT over 60hz, but they do not actually accept over 60hz from an input/source. So unless you know for a fact that your display accepts a higher hz input, and that you actually have a source medium encoded in or programmed to deliver over 60hz, you can discount the 60hz capability of component cable as a limitation.

HDMI does not provide a "clearer"/"sharper"/"more vivid" picture than component. That's somewhat of a marketing fallacy. There are however two situations in which it is actually true. Both situations are rather disingenuous. One: The quality of the cable itself or it's contacts, is sub-par. Two: Certain display manufacturers have been known to intentionally (yes intentionally), reduce the picture quality of component connections in order to sell people on HDMI (which they do not degrade).

Why would they do that though? Probably greed.
Hardware companies are being pushed very hard behind the scenes, by big media, and government, to adopt stricter copy protection schemes.
HDMI has higher and more abundant licensing fees. Yay revenue generation.
Advancement of technology? There's no denying that while Component is still completely capable of delivering media [/i]by today's[/i] hardware and software standards, it won't be able to deliver the future's standards.

Choosing HDMI over Component has almost nothing to do with "quality" and everything to do with "future proofing".

Comment by: kikzm33z (Jul 15, 2011 08:46)

I don't think that this will affect a lot of people.

If you have a HD TV and you're watching Blu-Ray films, you might as well spend the £1 or something by buying a HDMI cable from eBay.

If you have an SDTV and you're watching Blu-Ray films on an SDTV, then that's your problem for not buying the cheaper and more sensible option - DVD.

I might have gotten this all wrong - I'm completely ignorant to how component cables work or how this affects output but from what I've pieced together, this isn't a huge change.

Comment by: RuneJayce (Jul 15, 2011 13:52)

Originally posted by kikzm33z:

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I don't think that this will affect a lot of people.

If you have a HD TV and you're watching Blu-Ray films, you might as well spend the £1 or something by buying a HDMI cable from eBay.

If you have an SDTV and you're watching Blu-Ray films on an SDTV, then that's your problem for not buying the cheaper and more sensible option - DVD.

I might have gotten this all wrong - I'm completely ignorant to how component cables work or how this affects output but from what I've pieced together, this isn't a huge change.

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Are you really that stupid or does it come naturally?(/sarcasm)

The reason why a lot of people buy blu-ray discs and players even if they haven't got a HDTV is because if you want decent extras, they're only on BluRay and not DVD! In some cases, DVD releases cost as much as the BluRay version and hardly have any extras at all unlike the BluRay releases!

Another reason is that HDTV's, especially ones which output a 1080p signal are still too expensive to go mass-market and probably won't go down in price for the foreseeable future.

Comment by: Gnawnivek (Jul 15, 2011 14:11)

Why even bother informing the public. Most people interpret the article as "new PS3 models will not play BD movies." You know why? Because they don't know what component means. For those of us know what the article is implying, we already using HDMI, duh. It affects virtually nobody, because the PS3 doesn't come with component cables! As to ordering a HDMI cable vs. Component, one would only order Component cable if the TV doesn't have HDMI inputs, which begs the question why even bother with BD movies?

Comment by: Oner (Jul 15, 2011 18:20)

Originally posted by brockie:

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this is the movie standard for every device you can still play games & do other things the same way.

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Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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BTW, stand-alone BD players will be dropping component support by 2014 (earlier for newly designed models) too to comply with the same agreement. It's hardly just a PS3 thing. Luckily for some, the agreement doesn't require existing firmware-upgradeable devices to try to disable the ability via firmware.

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Exactly.

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Comment by: Bozobub (Jul 15, 2011 18:34)

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:

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{snip}For those of us know what the article is implying, we already using HDMI, duh. It affects virtually nobody, because the PS3 doesn't come with component cables! As to ordering a HDMI cable vs. Component, one would only order Component cable if the TV doesn't have HDMI inputs, which begs the question why even bother with BD movies?

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I use component cables, because my giant (but a little old) HD rear-projection LCD TV simply has NO HDMI input, just DVI and component. Your question is answered.

Comment by: WierdName (Jul 15, 2011 18:35)

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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It is the principal of the thing. They are trying to force people to buy new TVs if they want to use their new PS3 in HD. Component might not be as good as HDMI, but it does give you 1080i output, which is a heck of a lot better than composite or even s-video.

The really annoying part is that they claim it is some kind of anti-piracy measure. Copying blu-rays is fast and easy and can be done 100% digitally with no loss in quality (actually the quality goes up since you can remove DRM and forced trailers). There is absolutely no reason to play a bluray from your PS3 and then capture that with a tuner card...it takes longer, the quality is lower, and the file size is larger. The fact is that there is only one reason to capture the output of a PS3: to make "let's play" videos...and those sell games.

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The irony is that "gaming and streaming" are still supported, just not Blu-Ray. And it's more than just the principle. Say a someone with a new PS3 is gifted an old HDTV that only has component. To play Blu-Ray movies on that TV, they have to use composite (assuming that's unaffected) or get some sort of HDMI to component device if anything like that even exists (unlikely). Or suppose someone has a newer HDTV with all the HDMI ports used up when they get a new PS3. They decide to use the perfectly good component but now can't. So it is principle but it can also actually have a real world effect.

Comment by: Gnawnivek (Jul 15, 2011 19:51)

Originally posted by Bozobub:

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Originally posted by Gnawnivek:

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{snip}For those of us know what the article is implying, we already using HDMI, duh. It affects virtually nobody, because the PS3 doesn't come with component cables! As to ordering a HDMI cable vs. Component, one would only order Component cable if the TV doesn't have HDMI inputs, which begs the question why even bother with BD movies?

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I use component cables, because my giant (but a little old) HD rear-projection LCD TV simply has NO HDMI input, just DVI and component. Your question is answered.

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Sigh, you said it your self, the giant-but-a-little-old rear-projection LCD TV has DVI and component. So, one would order a DVI/HDMI cable than the component cable (the price is about the same). The only drawback is a separate audio cable (no audio via DVI), stereo L/R cables are dirt cheap (you probably have tons of those at home anyway).

Comment by: culade (Jul 15, 2011 20:08)

It still has it's uses, why remove such a harmless feature?

At my Walmart, the only Blu-Ray player we have that outputs anything 1080 through component cables is a PS3. Since we're supplied with component splitters and not HDMI splitters for our displays, i had to use a PS3 for our new tech/Blu-Ray section displays.

I still find it somewhat amusing that i'm using an old 80GB model to pump out Gnomeo and Juliette 24 hours a day everyday. Maybe that's what Sony's trying to stop.. :)

Comment by: Bozobub (Jul 16, 2011 13:02)

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:

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Originally posted by Bozobub:

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Originally posted by Gnawnivek:

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{snip}For those of us know what the article is implying, we already using HDMI, duh. It affects virtually nobody, because the PS3 doesn't come with component cables! As to ordering a HDMI cable vs. Component, one would only order Component cable if the TV doesn't have HDMI inputs, which begs the question why even bother with BD movies?

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I use component cables, because my giant (but a little old) HD rear-projection LCD TV simply has NO HDMI input, just DVI and component. Your question is answered.

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Sigh, you said it your self, the giant-but-a-little-old rear-projection LCD TV has DVI and component. So, one would order a DVI/HDMI cable than the component cable (the price is about the same). The only drawback is a separate audio cable (no audio via DVI), stereo L/R cables are dirt cheap (you probably have tons of those at home anyway).

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There are several reasons, but one of them is that this way, I don't need a switch for the DVI input, which is already in use for an HTPC. Clear enough? ANd furthermore, I got nearly everything on sale for a REASON; if you wanna shell out $25-75 bucks per extra converter/cable, please feel free.

Comment by: Gnawnivek (Jul 16, 2011 13:48)

Originally posted by Bozobub:

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Originally posted by Gnawnivek:

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Originally posted by Bozobub:

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Originally posted by Gnawnivek:

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{snip}For those of us know what the article is implying, we already using HDMI, duh. It affects virtually nobody, because the PS3 doesn't come with component cables! As to ordering a HDMI cable vs. Component, one would only order Component cable if the TV doesn't have HDMI inputs, which begs the question why even bother with BD movies?

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I use component cables, because my giant (but a little old) HD rear-projection LCD TV simply has NO HDMI input, just DVI and component. Your question is answered.

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Sigh, you said it your self, the giant-but-a-little-old rear-projection LCD TV has DVI and component. So, one would order a DVI/HDMI cable than the component cable (the price is about the same). The only drawback is a separate audio cable (no audio via DVI), stereo L/R cables are dirt cheap (you probably have tons of those at home anyway).

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There are several reasons, but one of them is that this way, I don't need a switch for the DVI input, which is already in use for an HTPC. Clear enough? ANd furthermore, I got nearly everything on sale for a REASON; if you wanna shell out $25-75 bucks per extra converter/cable, please feel free.

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I don't need to because I'm using HDMI ports on my new TV... The only device is attached via component is the Wii. Anyhow, when I had the old TV, the PS3 was connected via the DVI port (one end is DVI, the other end is HDMI), the cable was $10 from Monoprice. So, even if I'm still using the old TV, this "no BD via component" in the new PS3s will not affect me at all.

I don't know why you are mentioning $25-$75 converter/cable. There's no reason for you to do anything simply because you're not buying the new PS3 that disables BD movies via component.

Even if you do, you can still use the DVI/HDMI method on the old TV, which is $10.

Comment by: core2kid (Jul 16, 2011 14:30)

Solution:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HDMI-MALE-5-RCA-RGB-AV-COMPONENT-CABLE-5FT-1-5-METRE-/310318240309?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4840689235

Not sure of the PS3 supports this but if not, then you can get an adapter which will work for sure:
http://cgi.ebay.com/component-RGB-HDMI-converter-v1-3-compatible-HDCP-/260817870058?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb9f4dcea

Comment by: WierdName (Jul 16, 2011 18:29)

Originally posted by core2kid:

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Solution:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HDMI-MALE-5-RCA-RGB-AV-COMPONENT-CABLE-5FT-1-5-METRE-/310318240309?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4840689235

Not sure of the PS3 supports this but if not, then you can get an adapter which will work for sure:
http://cgi.ebay.com/component-RGB-HDMI-converter-v1-3-compatible-HDCP-/260817870058?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb9f4dcea

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Neither or those would work. The first does NOT convert the digital signal from the HDMI and says so in the note at the bottom. And the second converts component to HDMI, not the other way around.

Comment by: Interestx (Jul 16, 2011 18:36)

Originally posted by culade:

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It still has it's uses, why remove such a harmless feature?

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Because the cult of 'the mirage of security before all, even the paying customer' has demanded it.

Of course this is not just about PS3, they're doing it to all Blu-ray players as xnonsuchx rightly points out.

It's just another example of that little extra bit we the paying customer once had being taken away as the delusional morons who run this stuff play their futile little 'security' games to justify their multi-million $ gravy-train.

It only hurts the paying customer.
Those who actually pirate (ie copy & sell imitation goods) will not be caused even 1 seconds pause by this.

Sharers don't use this either.

Once again it's just another futile exercise in taking something away from the customer and which does nothing to hurt the pirate industry.
What a stupid joke.

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:

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Why even bother informing the public.

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Yeah, screw them right?
They only paid for these features on their kit a little while back, why should anyone support them for long.
If they don't like it just make them buy new and tell them to shut up & like it, eh?

Built-in obsolescence, don't you just love it?

Are you serious?

Comment by: core2kid (Jul 16, 2011 18:43)

Originally posted by WierdName:

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Originally posted by core2kid:

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Solution:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HDMI-MALE-5-RCA-RGB-AV-COMPONENT-CABLE-5FT-1-5-METRE-/310318240309?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4840689235

Not sure of the PS3 supports this but if not, then you can get an adapter which will work for sure:
http://cgi.ebay.com/component-RGB-HDMI-converter-v1-3-compatible-HDCP-/260817870058?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb9f4dcea

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Neither or those would work. The first does NOT convert the digital signal from the HDMI and says so in the note at the bottom. And the second converts component to HDMI, not the other way around.

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I wasn't sure about the first one, I didn't know if PS3 was able to output the proper signal. The second one however will work.

Comment by: WierdName (Jul 16, 2011 23:25)

Originally posted by core2kid:

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Originally posted by WierdName:

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Originally posted by core2kid:

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*Above*

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*Above*

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I wasn't sure about the first one, I didn't know if PS3 was able to output the proper signal. The second one however will work.

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Erm, no. The second accepts a component connection and digitizes it to connect to an HDMI input (i.e. an HDTV). It's a one way setup that doesn't convert the digital HDMI signal to analog component. As a matter of fact, I believe the hardware nazis that designed the newer digital protocols also setup something banning digital to analog converters from being licensed to use the technology (i.e. HDMI). That is, without seriously degrading the signal.

It's all about plugging the analog hole and by making us dependent on digital signals, they're actually succeeding. So the average benign user gets screwed while the pirates already moved to digital methods.

Comment by: xtago (Jul 17, 2011 13:40)

Originally posted by IPRFenix:

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Component is capable of 1920x1080 progressive @ 60hz. This can be confirmed by checking the Wikipedia entry, or various other sources.

Unless your display exceeds 1920x1080, a component cable is perfectly sufficient.

The vast majority (as in, well over 90% of all displays) of displays which clearly boast/list a refresh rate over 60hz may OUTPUT over 60hz, but they do not actually accept over 60hz from an input/source. So unless you know for a fact that your display accepts a higher hz input, and that you actually have a source medium encoded in or programmed to deliver over 60hz, you can discount the 60hz capability of component cable as a limitation.

HDMI does not provide a "clearer"/"sharper"/"more vivid" picture than component. That's somewhat of a marketing fallacy. There are however two situations in which it is actually true. Both situations are rather disingenuous. One: The quality of the cable itself or it's contacts, is sub-par. Two: Certain display manufacturers have been known to intentionally (yes intentionally), reduce the picture quality of component connections in order to sell people on HDMI (which they do not degrade).

Why would they do that though? Probably greed.
Hardware companies are being pushed very hard behind the scenes, by big media, and government, to adopt stricter copy protection schemes.
HDMI has higher and more abundant licensing fees. Yay revenue generation.
Advancement of technology? There's no denying that while Component is still completely capable of delivering media [/i]by today's[/i] hardware and software standards, it won't be able to deliver the future's standards.

Choosing HDMI over Component has almost nothing to do with "quality" and everything to do with "future proofing".

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Component can't do 1080P

People only say it can because it has just enough bandwidth to do 1080P but it's not really able to output that amount of data.

It also can't do the security signal that HDMI 1.3+ can do and what you need to be able to output an HDMI video/sound signal.

DVI has the same problem it have enough bandwidth but it can't do the security side either, main reason why few people say to use an HDMI/DVI cable.


Most TVS these days are 200mhz standard as that's what you need for proper sports TV show watching.

Comment by: Interestx (Jul 17, 2011 14:42)

xtago

The limitation with component cable is not actually the cable itself but the RCA connector, if you use a BNC connector you have plenty of bandwidth for 1080p.

I find it strange that some people say component is useless because it's older than HDMI and then comment about 1080i/p when that is hardly relevant to most HD TVs today.

A 1080p HD TV can only show a progressive image anyway and many of them on sale now have a decent deinterlacer so you see no difference on your TV.

This is purely about the delusional ideas of security - although funnily enough you are wrong about DVI, it can be certified for HDCP.
HDMI has the advantage over component & DVI by being able to carry a lot of bandwidth for audio too of course.

Until very recently (HDMI GPU cards haven't been common for very long) loads of people use DVI>HDMI cables on their PCs/HTPCs, once upon a time that was the only way to hook up to your HD TV (the occasional VGA input excepted) and being digital it was perfectly good.

It's also true that there is 200MHz and there is 200MHz.
Many TV's fake it or it refers to something a little different than the impression the advertisers are trying to create (Plasma's 600MHz subfield scanning being a good example).
Not forgetting that many reviews find LCD's fast scanning for motion blur horrible and recommend it be turned off for a truer image.

But this is all besides the point.
The point is that there is an element of flexibility here being taken away from the paying customer and for no good reason.

Comment by: 8686 (Jul 18, 2011 19:26)

Originally posted by Morreale:

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Ah, this should help improve sales.

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HAHAHA! +1

Comment by: jos22 (Jul 18, 2011 19:51)

Originally posted by Interestx:

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Originally posted by jos22:

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why would someone want to watch bluray movie via component cables. ,might as well just stick with DVD.

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I think you mean composite cable (like Svideo it is limited to SD resolutions).
Component is perfectly well capable of outputting 1080p (although another agreement limited many to 720p/1080i).

You're right to some degree tho, for many it probably isn't a change that will mean much as they already use HDMI.
But for those with limited connectivity the component option was handy.
It's just another little bit of flexibility we used to have (be allowed) taken away & shut down leaving the DRM-laden option being forced upon us all.

Lots of devices used component connections to carry HD, it's not just "old" lower res stuff.

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yes it was composite cable i was thinking of.
yes it is annoying for the lack of flexibility for those who would be affected.