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Comment by: xaznboitx (Jun 26, 2011 02:07)

next console will not support xbox/360 games including online play for those games.

Comment by: llongtheD (Jun 26, 2011 02:20)

Originally posted by xaznboitx:

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next console will not support xbox/360 games including online play for those games.

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Do you have any proof of this, or is this just a guess? I have read on the web, although only rumor, to the contrary.

Comment by: biglo30 (Jun 26, 2011 06:35)

I agree with this article, these current systems still have a lot of life left in them.

Comment by: oappi (Jun 26, 2011 11:04)

What i have heard (never owned one) xbox360 has only 512mb of ram... Saying that "we see it as about halfway through" imho just stupid. They (ps3 and xbox360) are very much holding gaming industry. I think even valve said they couldn't bring tf2 upgrades to consoles because they had so small memory (and by memory i mean memory not storage space). if memory was upgradeable then it might be half way, but seriously they launched console in 2005. Hardware has gotten a lot cheaper and using just 512 for memory would be retired in todays standards since it costs ~$10 per gb (and would definetly be less in large quantities. Might be the reason why valve was so interested in Wii u.

Comment by: LordRuss (Jun 26, 2011 14:50)

I think your cost per GB might be off a bit there. You might be quoting retail price rather than wholesale. I don't know what the manufacturers end up paying for it, frankly because these machines change hands a few times before we get them; but it "could" be as little as a $1 per GB before the retailers put their markup in the mix. Especially if it is much lesser quality memory that you speak of. Remember, these guys maximize the minimum.

Ergo, the Xbox has only met with its half life. Processors from 2 or 3 years ago & memory from the same time frame cost legions cheaper going into these systems now that the public wants the latest & greatest, so buying them up in bulk at an even greater savings wouldn't be uncommon. Then basically strong arm programmers into streamlining code to forcibly work on a choked system?

I'm "kinda" hearing rumors (and that's all they are) from my friends that's what the new Duke Nukem game looks like. Great on a computer, but forced out onto a console. A real shame if you ask me; and then for a corporation to say your console is having a midlife?

Comment by: KillerBug (Jun 26, 2011 17:12)

It sounds like their plan is to take over the part of the market currently held by the Wii; using a system with the worst hardware of the generation and focusing on motion controls, family titles, and exercise games. Not the worst idea considering how much nintendo made on the Wii. The 360 is already having issues with current software...and they want 5 more years; I sincerely hope that the developers dump the platform rather than holding back all the other platforms by making cross-platform games that can run on the 360.

Comment by: oappi (Jun 26, 2011 18:11)

@ LordRuss yeah meant retail price of ddr3 memmory... and yeah as i mentioned they won't cost nearly as much since it is totally different if i buy one 2gb ddr3 than when Microsoft comes knocking at the door wanting millions of them, not to mention the fact that you stated.

@KillerBug yeah i hope that too. unfortunately that would mean dumping huge marked, and i am not sure if developers want to do that...
Also if sony or ms wont release new console next year it would mean that nintendo has the crappies and best console in 2012. So nintendo might actually be competing with very cheap wii and most likely "expensive" wii u. I think thats brilliant plan. Im not really sure if motion controls are that interesting anymore, when wii brought them it was "new thing".

Comment by: LordRuss (Jun 26, 2011 18:41)

Plus the fact that console makers are still putting out machines at high value pricing, while (like Killer said) choking back advancement in code... Sounds to me one of my little prophecies just came true. If all indicators are true; where the industry 'slacker' has now oh-so-marginally set the pace for next year?

Folks - Corporations have literally forced us to dumb down our expectations.

Comment by: xaznboitx (Jun 26, 2011 19:19)

just a guess that the new console will not support much b/c games

Comment by: xnonsuchx (Jun 27, 2011 01:49)

Backwards compatibility in consoles depend on their power and architecture...if the architecture is considerably different (Xbox -> Xbox 360 or PS2 -> PS3), you need roughly 10x the performance of the emulated console to even really ATTEMPT software emulation of it (but can still be quite buggy, as many existing emulators are). If the architecture is similar enough (Gamecube -> Wii), it's much easier. Since Wii U and PS4 are supposed to stick w/ IBM CPUs, that's a good sign for backwards compatibility...I haven't heard much 'confirmation' on what a new Xbox might use, though I know Intel was courting them to switch to one of their CPUs, but w/o much luck.

Comment by: LordRuss (Jun 27, 2011 15:33)

It always struck me odd that you could use a rather simple computer to play a simple set of code (game) & all was well. Yet you make a more complex console & it has to work even harder to play the older, simpler code of yesterday. To the laymen (I'll bite... me) it doesn't make much sense.

I mean, our desktops today have immense computing power, so emulating the old stand-up arcade games is pretty much a no brainer, but all the code for these games today are written on computers/workstations available (I don't know) "today". They do have to be written on something... right? I know I'm over simplifying this to a point & apologize, but come on.

I'm not going to use a stupid analogy like putting an F-16 engine in a VW Bug, let's keep this in context. But you "can" download 'classic' PS2 games to play on the PS3 (can't you?) which supports my theory to a point. And I know for a fact there is no complication with playing a PS1 on the PS3, so 'my' only immediate conclusion would be that there is specific code forcing users to not play the game on anything but the chosen device & then the obvious; that the code given will only be 100% compatible with a device that already has all the hardware & preloaded software allowing the game to operate properly.

Some will say I answered my own question, but to that I say, "Why bother putting in the 'oldest' driver set code & such?". And equally, these things have HDDs now. It really isn't an issue anymore. It's not like writing to EEPROMs. Just like in my earlier comment, we're basically buying micro computers or home theater PCs.

Comment by: hearme0 (Jun 27, 2011 16:44)

I agree here. XBox is totally at its half-life. No way is a new console coming out in 2012.......NO WAY.......anyone that believes this is going to happen would need a marketing headcheck.

Comment by: scorpNZ (Jun 27, 2011 18:01)

Originally posted by LordRuss:

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It always struck me odd that you could use a rather simple computer to play a simple set of code (game) & all was well. Yet you make a more complex console & it has to work even harder to play the older, simpler code of yesterday. To the laymen (I'll bite... me) it doesn't make much sense.

I mean, our desktops today have immense computing power, so emulating the old stand-up arcade games is pretty much a no brainer, but all the code for these games today are written on computers/workstations available (I don't know) "today". They do have to be written on something... right? I know I'm over simplifying this to a point & apologize, but come on.

I'm not going to use a stupid analogy like putting an F-16 engine in a VW Bug, let's keep this in context. But you "can" download 'classic' PS2 games to play on the PS3 (can't you?) which supports my theory to a point. And I know for a fact there is no complication with playing a PS1 on the PS3, so 'my' only immediate conclusion would be that there is specific code forcing users to not play the game on anything but the chosen device & then the obvious; that the code given will only be 100% compatible with a device that already has all the hardware & preloaded software allowing the game to operate properly.

Some will say I answered my own question, but to that I say, "Why bother putting in the 'oldest' driver set code & such?". And equally, these things have HDDs now. It really isn't an issue anymore. It's not like writing to EEPROMs. Just like in my earlier comment, we're basically buying micro computers or home theater PCs.

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Going back away on this one & i can't even explain it right however all consoles have restrictions on the hardware they use especially in the cpu,your basicly getting a chip etc that is specifically aimed at gaming so compared to a computer chip it is severly limited in what code it can run & when it can (say an os) it don't do it too well,certainly was the way with the earlier consoles,the reason for this was maybe so they wouldn't compete with computers or some other such nonsense

see i told you i couldn't explain it very well :p

Comment by: LordRuss (Jun 27, 2011 19:22)

You're probably right, I shouldn't have brought it up here... but the machinery is being used in a format that just about rivals that of our desktops; don't you think?

Comment by: Interestx (Jun 27, 2011 21:57)

Announced mid/late 2012 to be on sale mid-late 2013 I think.
Xbox 360 & PS3 to sell in tandam with the new console for a few years giving the 10yr lifecycle they are taling about
(with some savage price cuts in the later years to keep sales ticking over - just like PS2 in fact.

scorpNZ is right, there's a world of difference between a dedicated system (look at all those 'we went to the moon with less computing power than your car' type comments for an example) and a desktop.
(Thank God)

But it will be very interesting to see where they freeze the designs & what tech is going to be 'it' for the next round of consoles.
As media hubs I expect them to be outstanding (they're not bad now but the next gen will see them doing pretty much everything right & with so little hassle I reckon).

....and 3yrs in they will still be getting left behind by a decent PC.
Such is the nature of the beast.