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Comment by: plazma247 (Dec 31, 2010 16:32)

Awww go on i wanted to see a brand new RROD VS YLOD flame war, cus no ones heard it before and its not got old yet......honest!

Comment by: SDF_GR (Dec 31, 2010 18:32)

Originally posted by Pop_Smith:

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Originally posted by SDF_GR:

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So if tomorrow sony announces that they will bring back the OtherOS the PS3 hack scene will cease to exist.

That's some major BS.

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That's not what the group is saying. They are saying that because Sony removed OtherOS fail0verflow got involved in the scene. It's not saying the scene wouldn't exist if Sony didn't remove OtherOS.

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well Ok, let me rephrase it.
So if tomorrow sony announces that they will bring back the OtherOS the fail0verflow group will stop messing with the PS3?
I dont think so...the BS is still there.
and btw......

Quote:

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In a tweet, the hackers note what many have been saying for months, that Sony made a terrible decision when the removed OtherOS

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This thing is all around the net "that the otheros removal made the hackers hack the ps3". Thats a mountain of BS!
Who is believing that sh!??
So if PS3 never supported linux or wasnt able to run linux the ps3 wouldn't be hacked? give me a f break...
The Dongles brought anything useful except piracy? no
Will this bring something new/useful except piracy? no
Every one has 1-2-3 pc's able to run linux way way faster than the ps3, with tons of applications and for some reason all the sudden everyone wants to install linux on their PS3...plus that everyone wants homebrew app's for the PS3.... like what? to do what? that you cant do on your desktop pc?

All the consoles was and will be hacked for free games. Fact.
PS3 because was the most hack-proof console so far, was working like a hackers magnet, everyone was trying to hack it from day 1 for the "fame and glory" ... and btw a "hacker" gave sony the best excuse to remove the otheros from the fat PS3's in first place... the otheros was there when geohot was trying to hack it.

I really hope that sony will find a way around this.
Just cause i dont like all this super-fake BS excuses.

Comment by: danixdefcon5 (Dec 31, 2010 18:32)

Originally posted by snaketus:

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Who cares really? I don't really care that pirates have hacked it and I don't really care that Sony tries to keep it intact. Get over it.

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This jailbreak does not allow pirated games to run. It basically re-enables the Linux route that Sony took away back in April 1, 2010; the one thing that does add functionality over the pre-3.21 FW is that this instance of linux wouldn't run under the HyperVisor, it would have full access to the hardware. Whoops!

Comment by: Zealousi (Dec 31, 2010 21:10)

Wow half are you are worried about modders and pirates and the other half got the point to this story as developers want to use the PS3 for their own code which the same reason XBMC was created and emulators and all that.

To say that removing the restrictions to allow code to be executed will allow hack programs and dump programs because what else you going to do with it.

As a real gamer i know the problem that internet gaming has but have you ever seen much regulation of these services, leaderboards with 99999999999999 scores and yes the changing of the rules to give you a better advantage.

I don't know how the Playstation network is managed but xbox live can be a joke sometimes, the leaderboards are never cleaned up and so the real gamers loose faith in getting that high score and do you know why because it is allowed and you can get away with.

If these this were managed and regulated then i don't see why half the problem can be managed, Steam, World of Warcraft, Starcraft to name a few big titles are PC based games and guess what they are watched like no tomorrow and logs read like a bed time story. WoW has some of the best security for online gaming i have ever seen, yes they have had lots of issues with hacking but they still fight the war for their product on their domain.

This is just one users opinion but we have the option to do what we want at the end of the day but with evil buggers like us on the internet if things are regulated it is a war but it will make a better service in the end because it does manage their service now if developers started fighting back for their products and filtered out the modders from the developers we could see a change in the modding scene but the piracy scene will never die there is too many involved.

here is a idea

The new Need for speed hot pursuit next gen game, this was the first i have seen on this. On the back of the manual there is a serial number on the back to unlock xbox live play and the extra cars for the limited edition. This i think is a great idea and with the ability for it not to be downloaded the ratio of modders would be less as they would download the games more then buy them in most cases.

As i finish off this novel of a post, to conclude i think that if we are to mange this problem the service needs to be managed and regulated to protect their paying customers from a bad gaming experience with their product.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Dec 31, 2010 22:48)

Originally posted by Zealousi:

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Wow half are you are worried about modders and pirates and the other half got the point to this story as developers want to use the PS3 for their own code which the same reason XBMC was created and emulators and all that.

To say that removing the restrictions to allow code to be executed will allow hack programs and dump programs because what else you going to do with it.

As a real gamer i know the problem that internet gaming has but have you ever seen much regulation of these services, leaderboards with 99999999999999 scores and yes the changing of the rules to give you a better advantage.

I don't know how the Playstation network is managed but xbox live can be a joke sometimes, the leaderboards are never cleaned up and so the real gamers loose faith in getting that high score and do you know why because it is allowed and you can get away with.

If these this were managed and regulated then i don't see why half the problem can be managed, Steam, World of Warcraft, Starcraft to name a few big titles are PC based games and guess what they are watched like no tomorrow and logs read like a bed time story. WoW has some of the best security for online gaming i have ever seen, yes they have had lots of issues with hacking but they still fight the war for their product on their domain.

This is just one users opinion but we have the option to do what we want at the end of the day but with evil buggers like us on the internet if things are regulated it is a war but it will make a better service in the end because it does manage their service now if developers started fighting back for their products and filtered out the modders from the developers we could see a change in the modding scene but the piracy scene will never die there is too many involved.

here is a idea

The new Need for speed hot pursuit next gen game, this was the first i have seen on this. On the back of the manual there is a serial number on the back to unlock xbox live play and the extra cars for the limited edition. This i think is a great idea and with the ability for it not to be downloaded the ratio of modders would be less as they would download the games more then buy them in most cases.

As i finish off this novel of a post, to conclude i think that if we are to mange this problem the service needs to be managed and regulated to protect their paying customers from a bad gaming experience with their product.

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Er right...sorry main stream devs go through the proper channles to get crap to dev for the platform everyone else is either a end user or pirate at least as far as sony is concerned.

I just want to be able to have a 2nd PS3's and story my PSX,PS2,PSP(and play PSP games nativily) collection on it and maybe a few PS3 games, new games aint worth 50$, I will collect them and add them to my disc and box art collection at 1-20$ a pop.

Comment by: xtago (Jan 01, 2011 00:45)

Originally posted by Zealousi:

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As i finish off this novel of a post, to conclude i think that if we are to mange this problem the service needs to be managed and regulated to protect their paying customers from a bad gaming experience with their product.

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Hot pursuit uses it's own servers for logging everything not PSN servers.

So it wouldn't be the best thing to even log online with in the first place.

GT5 uses it's own servers but right after the intro it does a key/disk check with the online servers before the game starts says that in the manual.

so yeah everyone who's been using the backup stuff and copies/rips will have been logged.

if Sony ban consoles then they'd have a big list already.

Comment by: Bozobub (Jan 01, 2011 18:15)

Anyone who thinks the PS3 is a bad buy at $300 is an uninformed buffoon, AS LONG AS OtherOS is enabled. How any of you can sneer at a $300 204 GFLOP (single precision, 15 GFLOP double) 6-core (plus one supervisor core) Linux box with advanced graphics and audio with any real hope of being taken seriously is completely beyond me.

Edit --> I'd even go so far to say that it's just about the best bang:buck ratio ever in PC hardware.

Comment by: ps3lvanub (Jan 02, 2011 11:53)

Thats fair enough... But unless you are on a game you can't use half of that computing power because sony doesn't want you to.

OMG! COD6 TENTH HACK WITHOUT JTAG!

Comment by: plazma247 (Jan 02, 2011 12:43)

Originally posted by ps3lvanub:

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Thats fair enough... But unless you are on a game you can't use half of that computing power because sony doesn't want you to.

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Ermm, its not like they made cluster super computers out of them or the fact this master code means you can do exacute any code you want ??

Sony might not want you to, but im pretty sure you can get to that power cheif.

Comment by: BobShaft (Jan 04, 2011 02:03)

Can't wait for the next gen XBMC.

Comment by: Anonymous User (Jan 04, 2011 21:57)

sony planted the exploit to revive console sales. every gentoo nerd with 299USD in their pocket is going to buy one now.

Comment by: chriswhit (Jan 08, 2011 02:39)

Originally posted by snaketus:

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Who cares really? I don't really care that pirates have hacked it and I don't really care that Sony tries to keep it intact. Get over it.

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Isn't piracy one of the leading reasons prices of games are so high. If more people pirated games would have to double in price to off set there loss. playing backups to protect your original is one thing but not caring about piracy is like saying you dont care if your $50 game sells for $100 to $150. Its the same way with shop lifting in a store.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 08, 2011 02:59)

Originally posted by chriswhit:

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Originally posted by snaketus:

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Who cares really? I don't really care that pirates have hacked it and I don't really care that Sony tries to keep it intact. Get over it.

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Isn't piracy one of the leading reasons prices of games are so high. If more people pirated games would have to double in price to off set there loss. playing backups to protect your original is one thing but not caring about piracy is like saying you dont care if your $50 game sells for $100 to $150. Its the same way with shop lifting in a store.

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Nope, production costs are in the 10 to 50 million range and most titles have to sell at least a million units to brake even.

Piracy dose not even come into play in most modern media in most areas of course you get to poorer countries and you get a situation where its not going to sale at the price you set but maybe counterfeiters can sell it at 10th of the price and get by.

Comment by: papaace13 (Jan 08, 2011 08:20)

Originally posted by chriswhit:

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Originally posted by snaketus:

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Who cares really? I don't really care that pirates have hacked it and I don't really care that Sony tries to keep it intact. Get over it.

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Isn't piracy one of the leading reasons prices of games are so high. If more people pirated games would have to double in price to off set there loss. playing backups to protect your original is one thing but not caring about piracy is like saying you dont care if your $50 game sells for $100 to $150. Its the same way with shop lifting in a store.

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No...Think about this....when Microsoft windows came out with Win 95....How much was it?(I know there was crappier versions prior to this (os/2) but nobody was really stealing it). ($90-$199) was the price....Now how can you say hackers was stealing windows and that is why they charge so much right out the gate? No there are bean counters who knew that because of the initial price, it would be stolen, so to offset that they need to charge this much more. People it is common sense...you charge to much for an item(your right to) then people are going to steal. Wait to gas hits five dollars a gallon....cars will be sold with locking gas caps...and that will be a standard option!

Comment by: chriswhit (Jan 08, 2011 14:01)

I just figured ir 20'000 people pirated something instead of buying it that sales would suffer driving the price up on future games. I am probably wrong though cause how do they know how many people steal a game.

Comment by: alewis (Jan 08, 2011 14:17)

"when Microsoft windows came out with Win 95....How much was it?(I know there was crappier versions prior to this (os/2)"

LOL! Please, get real. OS/2 was far more advanced than Win95.

Anyway, back on track. There are a number of reasons why games prices are set as they are. The number one reason is: it's the going rate.

Thats right. Nothing more, nothing less. To demonstrate the point, every game in the shop, in a given hardware category and within a given genre, costs the same. This is despite each game costing a different amount to develop.

Hardware production costs (media, duplication, packaging) and distribution costs are the same within a given publisher. Marketing costs are irrelevant, as the marketing budget is allocated in advance (and generally factored into expected sales, it is not a direct development cost).

So why do all games cost £44.99 on the PS3 and X360, £35.99 on the Wii, and £39.99 on the PC (illustrative example!).

The games industry said for years that piracy added 10-15% of a games' cost (back in the days of the 64/Amiga/ST). Tape games cost £9.99, disk games £14.99. Period. ST/Amiga cost £19.99, with 'premium' games weighing in at £24.99

Along came the PC, and in 1992 we started seeing CD based games (Day of the Tentacle, anyone?). The cost increased! And until the late 90's people swallowed this, until it was revealed that it cost less than 50p to press a CD, including the blank. The reason? The publishing houses were maximising profits. All the rhetoric "if there was a pirate-proof media then prices would drop" proved hollow. Sure, CD's could be copied, and compile CDs appeared (Mr Blobby, yay!). But casual piracy, the so-called 'school-yard' copying, decreased.

I do agree that the current retail prices does include a percentage to offset piracy. I agree that some games do have significant development costs. But I believe that publishers should reconsider prices to reflect the games cost+profit, and not blanket price every game, followed by releasing older games on budget labels. Who knows, they might even see increased sales in the lower priced segments. And even a upsurge in 'amateur' games.

This is nothing new, its how video games started back in the very late 70s and early 80s. And its how come "Angry Birds" is doing very well as an app. Of course, the big companies 'don't get' what Angry Bird represents, or the market opportunity they have with that development route.

JMTC.

Comment by: marleyboy (Jan 08, 2011 17:19)

Originally posted by xtago:

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In a tweet, the hackers note what many have been saying for months, that Sony made a terrible decision when the removed OtherOS, the built-in ability to run Linux. Says the group: "We only started looking at the ps3 after otheros was killed."

load BS, everyone and their dog says this, all the while have never used any home brew and at the end of the day really what home brew is there? that's been released so far nothing pretty much but a DVP software, Sony came out with their own DVR with PlayTV.

It's a bit like everyone on PC saying they only grab games off the pirate bay because they desperately need to test out all the newest Linux ISOs.

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You really have no idea do you? It might be a good idea to LOOK, there are already 1000's of homebrew apps for the PS3. Its got much more to do with "homebrew" apps than copied games.

It was inevitable it would be broken, and it does serve them right. Sony dont even want to comment on it, as they know only too well, its pointless. They will give up the ghost on the PS3 and concentrate on the PS4 being even more secure (up until its broken), just as they gave up on the PS1 & PS2.

Comment by: marleyboy (Jan 08, 2011 17:23)

Originally posted by xtago:

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Originally posted by Zealousi:

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As i finish off this novel of a post, to conclude i think that if we are to mange this problem the service needs to be managed and regulated to protect their paying customers from a bad gaming experience with their product.

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Hot pursuit uses it's own servers for logging everything not PSN servers.

So it wouldn't be the best thing to even log online with in the first place.

GT5 uses it's own servers but right after the intro it does a key/disk check with the online servers before the game starts says that in the manual.

so yeah everyone who's been using the backup stuff and copies/rips will have been logged.

if Sony ban consoles then they'd have a big list already.

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Yet BOTH games have already been "cracked", which is the problem the PS3 will have from now on, no sooner is a new game encrypted for the PS3..............Its cracked.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 08, 2011 18:22)

Originally posted by chriswhit:

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I just figured ir 20'000 people pirated something instead of buying it that sales would suffer driving the price up on future games. I am probably wrong though cause how do they know how many people steal a game.

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errr no... fail logic is fail a copy dose not eqaule a sale, just like I can think of something great to sell dose not mean I can make up money just by thinking about it. Games,media,ect are not purchased because of high price, region locks and lack of qaulity.

The masses will always choose to buy while those on the fringes can do more with their money and not be beholdant to the artificial retail market.

Originally posted by alewis:

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"when Microsoft windows came out with Win 95....How much was it?(I know there was crappier versions prior to this (os/2)"

LOL! Please, get real. OS/2 was far more advanced than Win95.

Anyway, back on track. There are a number of reasons why games prices are set as they are. The number one reason is: it's the going rate.
snip

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Ya but nothing ran on OS/2 :P

From how I see things MSRP or your maker sales price is set 2-10 times or more the cost of the item. This is more noticeable at times in consumer electronics than media.

The main reason for higher prices is what the market will bare the 2nd reason how many units you can sale within a time frame you can pay a portion of it back and still make a profit.

A typical game needs to sell 100K units at launch to break even, if they make 30-40$ from the 50$ price tag thats only 3-4M in profit, if its a main stream game by your average dev thats 3-30% of production costs.

damn should have posted this an hour ago...

Comment by: alewis (Jan 08, 2011 20:19)

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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errr no... fail logic is fail a copy dose not eqaule a sale, just like I can think of something great to sell dose not mean I can make up money just by thinking about it.

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Agreed. Of course, the industry has a different opinion :-)

Quote:

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Originally posted by alewis:

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"when Microsoft windows came out with Win 95....How much was it?(I know there was crappier versions prior to this (os/2)"

LOL! Please, get real. OS/2 was far more advanced than Win95.

Anyway, back on track. There are a number of reasons why games prices are set as they are. The number one reason is: it's the going rate.
snip

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Ya but nothing ran on OS/2 :P

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I'm trying to think of a witty comeback... trying... I can't. Bugger. No, lots of s/w ran on OS/2. Just very little of it was native OS/2 code.

Quote:

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From how I see things MSRP or your maker sales price is set 2-10 times or more the cost of the item. This is more noticeable at times in consumer electronics than media.

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Erm, MSRP is simply the "manufacturers suggested retail price". It has no bearing on the manufacturing cost or wholesale price. Wholesale price is - usually - cost of manufacturing plus a margin (15% is common). And at each stage of the distribution model a profit is added.

Quote:

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The main reason for higher prices is what the market will bare

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Yep - as I said above, the "going rate"

Quote:

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A typical game needs to sell 100K units at launch to break even, if they make 30-40$ from the 50$ price tag thats only 3-4M in profit, if its a main stream game by your average dev thats 3-30% of production costs.

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That £3-4m figure isn't profit, it's revenue. Profit is, very simply, revenue - costs. I'm not sure what you mean by 3-30% of production costs, but I'm assuming you mean "profit", and so by a roundabout way we are in agreement.

However, I have little sympathy for the whole games industry. The industry is myopic, destructively conservative, bloated, clings to outdated business models and practices, fundamentally ignores the needs of its customers, and fails to reflect its own key market enablers. /soapbox

Comment by: Adamantus (Jan 08, 2011 22:58)

Only the best geeks actually talk like robots.

I keep wondering when it's actually going to stop. Ok so nothing is uncrackable, but how long does it actually take to crack? If it takes 6 years instead of 4 then you will miss that generation of games consoles. Of course now they know these techniques so they will have to develop new ones, so the next cracking cycle could be faster or slower presumably.

It's like a battle of the brains but the people making the system have secrecy as an added advantage. Of course the two sides are not opposed: The people writing the software can easily talk to the people trying to crack it and leak whatever they like.

Then you have morality and intentions. Do they want to force Sony out of the business? They claim that they just want to install homebrew not pirate games, but the hacking processes for both is not mutually exclusive. Perhaps Sony will now try to keep the lines of attack for both seperate from now on.

Comment by: ZippyDSM (Jan 09, 2011 13:20)

Originally posted by alewis:

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snip

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Ya but it ran nothing compared to windows, it was like WIn NT befor NT only better a shame it could not take off(os/2).

Originally posted by Adamantus:

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Only the best geeks actually talk like robots.

I keep wondering when it's actually going to stop. Ok so nothing is uncrackable, but how long does it actually take to crack? If it takes 6 years instead of 4 then you will miss that generation of games consoles. Of course now they know these techniques so they will have to develop new ones, so the next cracking cycle could be faster or slower presumably.

It's like a battle of the brains but the people making the system have secrecy as an added advantage. Of course the two sides are not opposed: The people writing the software can easily talk to the people trying to crack it and leak whatever they like.

Then you have morality and intentions. Do they want to force Sony out of the business? They claim that they just want to install homebrew not pirate games, but the hacking processes for both is not mutually exclusive. Perhaps Sony will now try to keep the lines of attack for both seperate from now on.

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Morality is what you make of it, you can;t force a multi billion dollar company to do anything, the most one can do is save a bit time and money, learn to fix the unit yourself and run backups offline then buy used to play the ones you like online.

Comment by: Jemborg (Jan 10, 2011 07:08)

Originally posted by snaketus:

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Who cares really? I don't really care that pirates have hacked it and I don't really care that Sony tries to keep it intact. Get over it.

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I think you're on the wrong site. LOL

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.

Comment by: kemet (Apr 26, 2011 16:18)

Originally posted by biglo30:

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Best news to end the year with, now lets see what sony has up their sleeves besides mandatory updates that dont even add features. Sony brought this on themselves when they robbed users like me of one of the features we paid for. Yet another dumb move by Sony.....

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sony is making alot of dumb moves. soon we'll all be on xbox and they will lose out on not treating there loyal customers with honest and respect for their money, I will no longer be buying sony's products EVER! Only if we all stand together against sony can we win, we can talk about it for years but unless we take real serious measures of gaining our freedom to do what we want with a $400 dollar system that we bough, we will always be taken advantage of. we all need to cut ourselves from psn and hock that crap out of it, or simply sign petitions to get our rights back, Sony is violating constitutional rights and the law is not being enforced against Sony's Piracy! All Picary providers are being shut don't then so should sony. put back our others OS, stop the enforcement of updates allow us to play without updating! we need to have a strike against sony until they meet our demands gives us back our CONSOLES, we paid you already! STRIKE AGAINST PSN dont use ps3 internet turn it off, dont update anymore and if we all do this at the same time for a consistent period of time SONY WILL YIELD!

Comment by: Anonymous User (Jun 22, 2011 13:05)

Originally posted by mrslicker:

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Originally posted by biglo30:

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Best news to end the year with, now lets see what sony has up their sleeves besides mandatory updates that dont even add features.

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maybe they will bring out the playstation 4 earlier, and begin a another 4-year hack cycle.

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Yeah this could a publicity gimmick, keeping buyer interested?!