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Kinect sales are crushing Move sales, says Pachter

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DVDBack23 @ Dec 10, 2010 21:29 | 69 comments

Wedbush analyst Michael Pachter, one of the most well-known in the video game industry has said today that Microsoft's Kinect is crushing Sony's rival Move motion control system in regards to sales.

Sony says it has shipped 4.1 million units since launch, but it is unclear how many of those have translated to actual retail sales.

Microsoft, on the other hand, has confirmed 2.5 million sales in just under a month.

Pachter added:

"About one fifth of PS3 sales included bundles with Sony’s Move controller, suggesting a modest third month. About half of Xbox 360 sales included bundles with Microsoft’s Kinect peripheral, suggesting a strong first month. Xbox 360 Kinect console bundles outsold PS3 Move console bundles by more than 5:1."

The analyst also noted that he expects overall installed base for Move and Kinect to be 8 million by the end of the year and 25 million by the end of 2011.

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Comment by: bankai987 (Dec 14, 2010 09:52)

Originally posted by core2kid:

Originally posted by chris1980:

Quote:
Also more people have Xbox 360s so take a percentage of 360 owners with Move and a percentage of PS3 owners with move and I bet you the Move percentage will be higher.

The kinect console bundle is out selling the move console bundle 5:1... that means that people with neither console are opting for the kinect
Nice! Hey, I can pull info out of my rear end too!
BMWs are outselling Toyotas 10:1

Also the Kinect bundle is $100 less. An everyday buyer is gonna get the 360 with Kinect thinking that they are getting a better deal. They'll come home, hook up the console to online and enjoy it. In a month, they'll be running out to get a flash drive or new hard drive. There is a $400 Kinect bundle but nobody sells that at a decent price (console + kinect separately is cheaper)

Don't tell me the "Patcher said this" BS. He's been wrong 95% of the time.
Reason Kinect is selling more is because people have trust in 360. They've done so many things right that people have trust in Microsoft. All those people are overlooking the ridiculous failure rate, scratching of discs, noise, external power supply, etc. People looked at PS3 at release and saw a $600 price tag and said "Sony sucks", then they saw the YLOD and were like "really sony?" and finally they looked at PS3s online and continued to make fun of it. They didn't look at the fact that for $300, you get so much more.

Originally posted by bankai987:
Man, I hate fan-boys, I really do. I propose a new rule to after dawn if your a fan-boy then you are banned. Both consoles are very good and have their own unique nuances that entertain and that's why I have both. Fighting over which is better or sold more is just stupid. Why do people fight for companies that they do not have any stock in I have no clue. But I know one thing Sony and Microsoft are laughing all the way to the bank.
If you're hinting that I'm a fan-boy, think again. Look at my signature, I have consoles from every manufacturer. I have 3 360s and 3 PS3s. I'll tell you straight out that playing online is identical on both systems except. There's games like Black Ops which suck on PSN but that's obviously Treyarch sucking at life because MW2 and everything else I've played works fine. Xbox 360 has the "goodies" which PS3 has too, Xbox just has a couple more. If someone judges a console by just the online portion, in my opinion, they're truly retarded.

For people pulling out the "360 has more games". Both consoles have the same number of games coming out now. Most games are multiplatform. For those on 360 that are like "We have Gears of War!" hey, we have Uncharted, Ratchet, Resistance, etc. Only reason 360s game library is greater is because it was out a year longer. It's like PS2s game library vs Xbox and Gamecube.

Now for my favorite. The people who say "You get a better deal with 360". Those people are legit retarded. PS3 has 100% PS1 backwards compatibility, the ability to upgrade the hard drive to a generic one, BluRay, a PlayStation Store which is much easier to use than Xbox's dash garbage (All my friends with a 360 agree here), built in Wifi from the start, the ability to play media files off a flash drive (PS3 can play more file types) and the ability to copy media files from an external device to the PS3s hard drive.

The reason I'm so pissed off is not because I'm a fanboy. It's because of all the news and how it goes against PS3. There's never any good news about the PS3, theres the news like "New Firmware Update" which people frown upon because it takes time to install, eliminates the possibility for homebrew, and won't let you go online until you install it. Might I add that Xbox 360 does the same thing except their updates take a lot less time. That doesn't bother me, PS3's firmware is a lot more complicated than 360s. The other article I remember is "PS3s getting the YLOD" Holy crap you're gonna report on that but not 360s RROD?

First of all, I never called you a fan boy, it was general. I never called out a individual in particular. You are asserting something that I never said. If your not a fan boy then my post wasn't directed towards you. I was just stating what I was seeing through out the thread. however, there are fan boys and the proof is in the posts. i.e. ps3 is greater than x box or vice verse. I am fully aware that some people on this forum can be objective like yourself.

Comment by: kikzm33z (Dec 14, 2010 16:13)

Originally posted by elfman12:

Originally posted by kikzm33z:
@Elfman
You're implying that Kinect is accurate? Yeah right!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWbLOFGSEDo
Yes, in what it does it works well. You are comparing a device that tracks a fixed point in space (Move) with a device that tracks and can accurately map a human skeletal system (using an TGB as well as 3D cameras).
Those are not the same thing.
For single pinpoint precision, Move has a great solution. For something entirely different, Kinect hasn't even hit it's stride yet. Again, they have different objectives, but YOU only measure them by Move's strength. Feel free to do that, but it's a pointless argument.

I don't understand.
I am comparing both products and Move is clearly more accurate because of its controls and that's a positive point for it.

What you're saying is something like, 'Hey, Kinect doesn't need controllers but we can't add that as an argument because Move uses controllers.'

And obviously the lack of controllers for the Kinect is a positive point but since it's different to the Move, you're saying that it's not comparable because it's different.

If that was the case, then the word 'comparison' would never have existed.

Comment by: core2kid (Dec 14, 2010 16:40)

Originally posted by kikzm33z:

Originally posted by elfman12:

Originally posted by kikzm33z:
@Elfman
You're implying that Kinect is accurate? Yeah right!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWbLOFGSEDo
Yes, in what it does it works well. You are comparing a device that tracks a fixed point in space (Move) with a device that tracks and can accurately map a human skeletal system (using an TGB as well as 3D cameras).
Those are not the same thing.
For single pinpoint precision, Move has a great solution. For something entirely different, Kinect hasn't even hit it's stride yet. Again, they have different objectives, but YOU only measure them by Move's strength. Feel free to do that, but it's a pointless argument.
I don't understand.
I am comparing both products and Move is clearly more accurate because of its controls and that's a positive point for it.

What you're saying is something like, 'Hey, Kinect doesn't need controllers but we can't add that as an argument because Move uses controllers.'

And obviously the lack of controllers for the Kinect is a positive point but since it's different to the Move, you're saying that it's not comparable because it's different.

If that was the case, then the word 'comparison' would never have existed.

If that's the case, this news article shouldn't have been published in the first place.

Comment by: kikzm33z (Dec 14, 2010 21:45)

Exactly.
Both were made to compete and to be compared and Move's better accuracy is one of its argument and shouldn't be disregarded of just because Kinect doesn't have controllers to compete with Move's precision.

Comment by: core2kid (Dec 14, 2010 22:18)

Originally posted by kikzm33z:
Exactly.
Both were made to compete and to be compared and Move's better accuracy is one of its argument and shouldn't be disregarded of just because Kinect doesn't have controllers to compete with Move's precision.

Move is like a mouse, Kinect is like a Mac touchpad.

Comment by: elfman12 (Dec 14, 2010 23:40)

Originally posted by core2kid:

If you're playing with a white background behind you, it's gonna be amazing. If you have picture frames or an incomplete wall or another room say behind you, it won't work as well.

Nope, I have dark furniture as a background and a doorway to another room.
And the camera doesn't "lag".

Comment by: elfman12 (Dec 14, 2010 23:46)

Originally posted by kikzm33z:

I don't understand.
I am comparing both products and Move is clearly more accurate because of its controls and that's a positive point for it.

And obviously the lack of controllers for the Kinect is a positive point but since it's different to the Move, you're saying that it's not comparable because it's different.

If that was the case, then the word 'comparison' would never have existed.

No, I'm saying that, although these are motion system, they are both trying to do different things. Move tracks single points in space, and Kinect is trying to monitor motion in an entire playspace. In that case, "accuracy" means different things for different devices. Pinpoint accuracy of a single point in space is very important to Move, but not the purpose of Kinect - it can have less "resolution" and still track the 3D movement of a body.
But using the higher "resolving ability" of Move as if it's the only attribute that matters is simply disingenuous.
It would be the same as me arguing that Move sucks because it can't track the rotational velocity of my right knee joint. Kinect can do it, but Move has no reason to... but that doesn't make it bad.

Comment by: core2kid (Dec 15, 2010 04:38)

Originally posted by chris1980:

Quote:
Nice! Hey, I can pull info out of my rear end too!
BMWs are outselling Toyotas 10:1
Nice! Hey, I can be a pompous wanker too!
Get a life, fan boy.

Quote:
You can really only use it for about 5-10 mins pushing kids included because you get tired from jumping around the place.

So your lack of fitness is microsoft's fault?

You're the fanboy. Have you said one nice thing about Move?

Comment by: core2kid (Dec 15, 2010 04:48)

Originally posted by chris1980:
So your lack of fitness is microsoft's fault?

I gotta agree with him here.

Comment by: bw5011 (Dec 17, 2010 03:52)

I have a Kinect.. It is accurate..I play it in the dark,bright light and with my dogs running around and it works great. Way better than having to hold a controller..Also you can not get accurate movement of everything with a glowing ball... people that dont like the connect probably havent even played one.. go to best buy or somewhere and play.. if you live near raleigh nc you can come to my house and play... Kinect is way, way, way superior...

Comment by: scorpNZ (Dec 17, 2010 04:55)

Personally i have no use for a kinect however it seems apart from the web browser control hack those hacks keep evolving if only they could make one to control xp then i'd buy one

MIT engineer Garratt Gallagher developed a way to use the Kinect sensor to distinguish both hands and individual fingers in a cloud of more than 60,000 points, at speeds up to 30 frames per second.

The system uses the Kinect and the libfreenect driver for interfacing with Linux. "The graphical interface and the hand detection software were written at MIT to interface with the open source robotics package 'ROS,' developed by Willow Garage (willowgarage.com)," according to MIT's CSAIL page on YouTube.

"The hand detection software showcases the abilities of the Point Cloud Library (PCL), a part of ROS that MIT has been helping to optimize."

What kills us with this is that no one is using head gear, gloves with diodes sticking out of them, or bulky "virtual reality" 3D glasses. It's a Microsoft Kinect that you stand in front of. You could put it in someone's living room, or at their desk in an office, and get this interface anywhere.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2374136,00.asp

Comment by: core2kid (Dec 17, 2010 05:17)

Originally posted by bw5011:
Way better than having to hold a controller

That is your opinion. Nobody cares about your opinion.

Originally posted by bw5011:
..Also you can not get accurate movement of everything with a glowing ball...

Move also has a Camera which is able to capture 120FPS at 320x240, 60FPS at 640x480. Kinect camera specs are 30FPS at 640x480. I'm not bashing Kinect here, specs are quite good for an RGB camera but the PlayStation Eye has no problems with tracking even in pitch dark (I know from experience).

Originally posted by bw5011:
people that dont like the connect probably havent even played one..

Maybe but it's obvious that you haven't played Move. Kinect isn't anything like the commercials. At least Move is somewhat like the commercials. Both commercials are greatly exaggerated though.

Originally posted by bw5011:
go to best buy or somewhere and play.. if you live near raleigh nc you can come to my house and play

That comment is so weird.

Originally posted by bw5011:
... Kinect is way, way, way superior...

Again, your opinion. I beg to differ. Kinect is basically EyeToy on PS2. Everyone hated EyeToy. I found it interesting for the first couple days. Now that Microsoft makes it, everyone loves it?

Comment by: ddp (Dec 17, 2010 05:29)

no fan wars or there will be bans!!

Comment by: core2kid (Dec 17, 2010 05:36)

Originally posted by ddp:
no fan wars or there will be bans!!

ddp, no disrespect or anything but I fail to see where I showed "fanboy-ism". My entire goal in this thread is to prove to the people who say "kinect is better" and haven't even played Move. I've played both. I owned both for a week. I returned both because they weren't worth it for me but I did find Move gave me less problems.

Comment by: DXR88 (Dec 17, 2010 05:39)

i want to see real numbers on this. i faintly remember being called an idiot(or somthing along those lines) when i said Kinect would out sell the Move.

Comment by: core2kid (Dec 17, 2010 05:44)

Originally posted by DXR88:
i want to see real numbers on this. i faintly remember being called an idiot(or somthing along those lines) when i said Kinect would out sell the Move.

"This guy is an idiot, he has no idea how to make a proper statement."
I'm talking about Patcher.

Comment by: bankai987 (Dec 17, 2010 07:30)

Originally posted by ddp:
no fan wars or there will be bans!!

Can you you really make this happen ddp, and not let this turn into gamepro forums. Please, make this a new rule.

Comment by: core2kid (Dec 17, 2010 08:18)

Originally posted by bankai987:

Originally posted by ddp:
no fan wars or there will be bans!!
Can you you really make this happen ddp, and not let this turn into gamepro forums. Please, make this a new rule.

I agree. I bet half the people here haven't tried Move or Kinect in their home. I really don't could demo station Move or Kinect systems since their calibration could be off. I've tried both and I can tell you that I have positive and negative things for both!

Want an excellent system with NO chance of Fanboy-ism?

Comment by: bankai987 (Dec 17, 2010 08:55)

One thing though I believe people should voice their opinions, but not to the point of inciting a fan boy war, all consoles are great in there own way, they are here for enjoyment.

Comment by: DXR88 (Dec 17, 2010 13:58)

the Dream Cast was a bad ass system. Sega knew how to develop gaming machines, there marketing & title line-ups what cost them.

Comment by: DXR88 (Dec 17, 2010 14:02)

Originally posted by bankai987:
One thing though I believe people should voice their opinions, but not to the point of inciting a fan boy war, all consoles are great in there own way, they are here for enjoyment.

clearly they're there so we can bitch about why ones great and the others complete crap.

other wise we would just have one gaming machine to rule them all...and we would call it PC.

Comment by: core2kid (Dec 17, 2010 14:50)

Originally posted by DXR88:
the Dream Cast was a bad ass system. Sega knew how to develop gaming machines, there marketing & title line-ups what cost them.

The dreamcast was amazing and with a release almost 2 years before PS2, it ruled. I agree though, lack of games killed it.

Originally posted by DXR88:

Originally posted by bankai987:
One thing though I believe people should voice their opinions, but not to the point of inciting a fan boy war, all consoles are great in there own way, they are here for enjoyment.
clearly they're there so we can bitch about why ones great and the others complete crap.

other wise we would just have one gaming machine to rule them all...and we would call it PC.

PC wins, no doubt. (Now we'll start a fanboy war about Mac or Windows)
LINUX!

Comment by: ps355528 (Dec 17, 2010 15:02)

So your lack of fitness is microsoft's fault?

mental fitness.. yes XD

ARR! Them pesky Navy! Get out of my sea! irc://irc.villageirc.net/afterdawn

Comment by: scorpNZ (Dec 17, 2010 17:54)

The kinect is now at 4 million estimates are 6 million before years end holy shit ! it seems to me 4 million can't be wrong..lol..

http://www.neowin.net/news/kinect-hits-4-million-units-outpacing-nintendo-in-same-launch-period

Comment by: scorpNZ (Dec 17, 2010 18:11)

Units sold is old news it seems so Andre where's the link to the original author of the context you have taken what you have posted here

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2010/11/30/microsoft_kinect_sales_hit_2_5_million